Hi Kellen, Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately, I don't have the usage data, so I refrained from voting. If any of the voters have such data I'd love to see it too.
-sz On 2018/08/30 14:58:09, kellen sunderland <[email protected]> wrote: > I haven't spoken to anyone about the decision (as I'm currently on an > island in the med) but to me the quick +1s are likely a result of this > being a fairly straightforward decision. The factors that went into my > thinking were (1) prioritizing growing platforms rather than shrinking > platforms (i.e. thinking long term rather than shirt term) and (2) earning > our customers' trust. Claiming support for a platform when we can't > realistically deliver it would lose us trust. I'd prefer to over deliver > and under promise when it come to windows 7 for this reason. > > Now on the flip side one thing I would see as valuable is to try and get > windows builds working with clang. This could be beneficial in the sense > that it would be easy to maintain for mxnet devs and allow us to use modern > cpp on older windows machines without using vs 2013(which I consider a > non-starter with our codebase). > > You have peaked my curiousity though Sheng. How many win7 users does MXNet > have relative to macos/Linux? > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 8:51 AM Sheng Zha <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Yuan, > > > > No problem. This is an issue that's worth having a clear definition, so > > there's nothing wrong about your proposal, and thanks for bringing this up. > > > > I'm more concerned about the seemingly unanimous votes on dropping support > > on a platform without seeing the supporting evidence that it's the right > > thing. It is as if everyone who participated in the vote are already on the > > same page, and somehow I'm the only one that's not. But the only argument I > > hear so far is that it's technically not straightforward to continue the > > support, which, coming from Amazon folks, certainly doesn't sound > > customer-obsessed. > > > > -sz > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:37 PM Lin Yuan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi Sheng, > > > > > > Thanks for raising this concern. The problem now is that we cannot even > > > build MXNet on Windows 7 because the build process requires MS VS 2015 w/ > > > update 3 which is incompatible on Windows 7. This leaves many Windows 7 > > > related open issues on github without any timely response. In my opinion, > > > having no response to users' request is probably even worse than letting > > > them know the limitation of OS support. > > > > > > To minimize the impact to current Windows 7 users, we can provide PyPi > > > package for Windows 7 in this release but defer the bug fix and feature > > > enhancement to later Windows OS version. Based on users' feedbacks, we > > can > > > then officially discontinue the Windows 7 support in the next MXNet > > > release. > > > > > > I will appreciate your comments. > > > > > > Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:37 PM Sheng Zha <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Are any of the votes based on any measure of user impact, if we indeed > > > > decide not to fix the current problems? > > > > > > > > -sz > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:29 PM Hagay Lupesko <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > +1 (non-binding) > > > > > Thanks for raising this Lin! > > > > > Are you suggesting to do it as part of MXNet 1.3? > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:14 AM Srivastava, Rohit Kumar < > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/29/18, 8:39 AM, "sandeep krishnamurthy" < > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 Thanks for bringing this up. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 6:38 AM Marco de Abreu > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:08 PM kellen sunderland < > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 (non-binding) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 1:18 AM Anirudh Acharya < > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 for discontinuing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 4:11 PM Naveen Swamy < > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 to stop supporting Win7 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 3:54 PM Lin Yuan < > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Community, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently, our MXNet installation guide for Windows > > > does > > > > > not > > > > > > work > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > Windows 7. e.g. Microsoft Visual Studio 2015 is not > > > > > > supported on > > > > > > > > > Windows > > > > > > > > > > 7 > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/support/vs2015/received-error-specified-program-requires-newer-version-windows/ > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > In addition, MSFT ended “Mainstream” support for > > > Windows > > > > 7 > > > > > > in 2015 > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet > > > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, it is not possible for developers to build > > > > MXNet > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > verify > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > fix on Windows 7 platform. Given that there have been > > > > > several > > > > > > > issues > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > MXNet error on Windows 7 (issue#9271 > > > > > > > > > > > < > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/9271 > > > >, > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > #8921 > > > > > > > > > > > < > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/8921 > > > >, > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > #11163 > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/11163 > > > > >), > > > > > > it will > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > add > > > > > > > > > > > more burden on developers in the future if we were to > > > > > > continue > > > > > > > > > supporting > > > > > > > > > > > Windows 7. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I therefore would like to propose that we discontinue > > > the > > > > > > support > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > MXNet > > > > > > > > > > > on Windows 7 in the next release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifically, this means the following required > > > actions: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) state the discontinuation of Windows 7 support in > > > the > > > > > > release > > > > > > > note > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) update the MXNet webpage if Windows version is > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) update the open Github issues related to Windows 7 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please share your thoughts about this proposal and/or > > > > > > suggest if > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > any other missing action item from the above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Sandeep Krishnamurthy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
