At present, all precompiled packages are win10-compiled. There are no large-scale reports that can no run win7. Therefore, there is no problem for all precompiled package users to stop or continue supporting.
Timur Shenkao <[email protected]> 于2018年9月3日周一 下午5:14写道： > Users live like you described: install mxnet, then import fails, switch to > TF or Pytorch and forget mxnet forever. > > Only very stubborn users spend time in loop: compiling / building wheel / > conda package on external machine, copy to destination machine, fail with > some dependency error, etc. Until patience is lost or something workable is > created. > > On Monday, September 3, 2018, Lin Yuan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Thanks for all the constructive discussions. I have a few thoughts on > this > > topic: > > > > When we say we support a particular platform X, I suppose it means the > > following processes in production: > > > > 1) Active developer support, the minimum of which is a clear instruction > to > > build from source on X. > > 2) Thorough test in each release/patch on X. > > 3) Continuous integration on X > > > > It seems today we are missing all of them for Windows 7 (correct me if I > am > > wrong). I have found issues opened over 9 months ago #9271 > > <https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/9271> which fails > simply > > by importing mxnet and exiting on Windows 7. Thus, I am wondering how > many > > users are actually running MXNet on Windows 7 for meaningful work. How > did > > live by with such an obvious blocker. > > > > If we do have a large active user base to support, we then should > dedicate > > resource to implement the above three items in order to claim that we > > support Windows 7. After all, maybe we should change the thread topic to > > "Should we start supporting Windows 7 again?" :) > > > > I really appreciate your valuable comments. Have a great labor day > weekend! > > > > Lin > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 12:37 PM Timur Shenkao <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> I also believe that it is possible to install more recent >> > versions > > of > > > Visual Studio on Windows 7. > > > > > > It's about security reasons and AD permissions and bought licenses for > > VS, > > > not about general technical impossibility of installation of up-to-date > > > versions. > > > > > > On Sunday, September 2, 2018, Marco de Abreu > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks for the data and these quite important points. I agree and > > hereby > > > > change my vote to -1. > > > > > > > > Barber, Christopher <[email protected]> schrieb am So., > 2. > > > > Sep. > > > > 2018, 18:56: > > > > > > > > > FWIW, my company is only beginning to transition to Windows 10 now, > > and > > > > my > > > > > past experience would lead me to believe that many enterprises > stick > > > with > > > > > old versions of Windows long past when you think they would. > > > > > > > > > > Seems to me that if you are unwilling to deprecate python 2.7, then > > > > > continuing to support Windows 7 is a no-brainer. You are more > likely > > to > > > > get > > > > > users to switch to python 3 than you are to get them to install a > new > > > > > operating system. > > > > > > > > > > And do you really want to drop support for platforms that your > > > > competitors > > > > > still support? Given MXNet's market share, I wouldn't dream of > > > dropping a > > > > > platform until after the more popular frameworks have already done > > so. > > > > > > > > > > I also believe that it is possible to install more recent versions > of > > > > > Visual Studio on Windows 7. > > > > > > > > > > On 9/2/18, 1:57 AM, "kellen sunderland" < > > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Google analytics are sadly probably the best numbers we're > going > > to > > > > > get. > > > > > Of course these numbers are likely to over-represent windows > > usage, > > > > as > > > > > I'm > > > > > sure many people are looking up documentation on a windows > > machine > > > > > while > > > > > ssh'd into a cloud instance or IoT device. > > > > > > > > > > What's the trend over time for these numbers Mu? Is Windows 7 > > > usage > > > > > relatively stable over the last year? > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 1:58 AM Mu Li <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > According to google analytics, ~12% users who visited mxnet's > > > > > website are > > > > > > using Windows 7. It's a significant number. Even though we > > cannot > > > > > conclude > > > > > > that all of these users will run MXNet on Windows 7, I > suggest > > we > > > > > still > > > > > > support win7. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, anyone who can access mxnet's google analytics report > can > > > > > verify this > > > > > > number by following this instruction: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1340778/detecting- > > > > windows-7-with-google-analytics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 1:55 PM Steffen Rochel < > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I support a data driven decision. Any suggestions how we > can > > > > obtain > > > > > > insight > > > > > > > about OS usage of the MXNet user community? > > > > > > > Can we get such information from pip install statistics or > > > should > > > > > we > > > > > > > perform a user poll on the discussion forum? > > > > > > > On the other hand the lack of data should not prevent us > from > > > > > moving > > > > > > > forward and dropping support for outdated OS. > > > > > > > In any case we would have to announce dropping a platform > > > support > > > > > at > > > > > > least > > > > > > > a release in advance. > > > > > > > Steffen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 12:21 PM Sheng Zha < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kellen, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately, I don't have > the > > > > > usage data, > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > I refrained from voting. If any of the voters have such > > data > > > > I'd > > > > > love > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > see it too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -sz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2018/08/30 14:58:09, kellen sunderland < > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I haven't spoken to anyone about the decision (as I'm > > > > > currently on an > > > > > > > > > island in the med) but to me the quick +1s are likely a > > > > result > > > > > of > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > being a fairly straightforward decision. The factors > > that > > > > > went into > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > thinking were (1) prioritizing growing platforms rather > > > than > > > > > > shrinking > > > > > > > > > platforms (i.e. thinking long term rather than shirt > > term) > > > > and > > > > > (2) > > > > > > > > earning > > > > > > > > > our customers' trust. Claiming support for a platform > > when > > > > we > > > > > can't > > > > > > > > > realistically deliver it would lose us trust. I'd > prefer > > > to > > > > > over > > > > > > > deliver > > > > > > > > > and under promise when it come to windows 7 for this > > > reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now on the flip side one thing I would see as valuable > is > > > to > > > > > try and > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > windows builds working with clang. This could be > > > beneficial > > > > > in the > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > > > that it would be easy to maintain for mxnet devs and > > allow > > > us > > > > > to use > > > > > > > > modern > > > > > > > > > cpp on older windows machines without using vs > > 2013(which I > > > > > consider > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > non-starter with our codebase). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have peaked my curiousity though Sheng. How many > > win7 > > > > > users does > > > > > > > > MXNet > > > > > > > > > have relative to macos/Linux? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 8:51 AM Sheng Zha < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Yuan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No problem. This is an issue that's worth having a > > clear > > > > > > definition, > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > > there's nothing wrong about your proposal, and thanks > > for > > > > > bringing > > > > > > > > this up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm more concerned about the seemingly unanimous > votes > > on > > > > > dropping > > > > > > > > support > > > > > > > > > > on a platform without seeing the supporting evidence > > that > > > > > it's the > > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > > > thing. It is as if everyone who participated in the > > vote > > > > are > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > > same page, and somehow I'm the only one that's not. > But > > > the > > > > > only > > > > > > > > argument I > > > > > > > > > > hear so far is that it's technically not > > straightforward > > > to > > > > > > continue > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > support, which, coming from Amazon folks, certainly > > > doesn't > > > > > sound > > > > > > > > > > customer-obsessed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -sz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:37 PM Lin Yuan < > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Sheng, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this concern. The problem now is > > > that > > > > we > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > build MXNet on Windows 7 because the build process > > > > > requires MS VS > > > > > > > > 2015 w/ > > > > > > > > > > > update 3 which is incompatible on Windows 7. This > > > leaves > > > > > many > > > > > > > > Windows 7 > > > > > > > > > > > related open issues on github without any timely > > > > response. > > > > > In my > > > > > > > > opinion, > > > > > > > > > > > having no response to users' request is probably > even > > > > > worse than > > > > > > > > letting > > > > > > > > > > > them know the limitation of OS support. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To minimize the impact to current Windows 7 users, > we > > > can > > > > > provide > > > > > > > > PyPi > > > > > > > > > > > package for Windows 7 in this release but defer the > > bug > > > > > fix and > > > > > > > > feature > > > > > > > > > > > enhancement to later Windows OS version. Based on > > > users' > > > > > > feedbacks, > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > then officially discontinue the Windows 7 support > in > > > the > > > > > next > > > > > > MXNet > > > > > > > > > > > release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will appreciate your comments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:37 PM Sheng Zha < > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are any of the votes based on any measure of user > > > > > impact, if we > > > > > > > > indeed > > > > > > > > > > > > decide not to fix the current problems? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -sz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:29 PM Hagay Lupesko < > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 (non-binding) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this Lin! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you suggesting to do it as part of MXNet > 1.3? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:14 AM Srivastava, > Rohit > > > > > Kumar < > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/29/18, 8:39 AM, "sandeep krishnamurthy" > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 Thanks for bringing this up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 6:38 AM Marco de > > > Abreu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:08 PM kellen > > > > > sunderland < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 (non-binding) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 1:18 AM Anirudh > > > > > Acharya < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 for discontinuing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 4:11 PM > > Naveen > > > > > Swamy < > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 to stop supporting Win7 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 3:54 PM > Lin > > > > Yuan > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Community, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently, our MXNet > installation > > > > > guide for > > > > > > > > Windows > > > > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > work > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Windows 7. e.g. Microsoft > Visual > > > > > Studio 2015 > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supported on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Windows > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/support/vs2015/received-error- > > > > specified-program-requires-newer-version-windows/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In addition, MSFT ended > > > “Mainstream” > > > > > support > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > Windows > > > > > > > > > > > > 7 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 2015 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows- > > > > lifecycle-fact-sheet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, it is not possible > for > > > > > developers > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > build > > > > > > > > > > > > MXNet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > verify > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fix on Windows 7 platform. > Given > > > that > > > > > there > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > several > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > issues > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MXNet error on Windows 7 > > > (issue#9271 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/9271 > > > > > > > > > > > >, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #8921 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/8921 > > > > > > > > > > > >, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #11163 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/ > > incubator-mxnet/issues/11163 > > > > > > > > > > > > >), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > add > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more burden on developers in > the > > > > > future if we > > > > > > > > were to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > continue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supporting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Windows 7. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I therefore would like to > propose > > > > that > > > > > we > > > > > > > > discontinue > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > support > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MXNet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on Windows 7 in the next > release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifically, this means the > > > > following > > > > > > required > > > > > > > > > > > actions: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) state the discontinuation of > > > > > Windows 7 > > > > > > > > support in > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > note > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) update the MXNet webpage if > > > > Windows > > > > > > version > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) update the open Github > issues > > > > > related to > > > > > > > > Windows 7 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please share your thoughts > about > > > this > > > > > > proposal > > > > > > > > and/or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggest if > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any other missing action item > > from > > > > the > > > > > above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandeep Krishnamurthy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
