One more data point: Mathematica still supports Windows 7 (with Platform Update), and we use MXNet as a backend for our neural net framework. So I would also vote against deprecating Windows 7 support.
> On Sep 2, 2018, at 7:40 PM, Marco de Abreu > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks for the data and these quite important points. I agree and hereby > change my vote to -1. > > Barber, Christopher <[email protected]> schrieb am So., 2. Sep. > 2018, 18:56: > >> FWIW, my company is only beginning to transition to Windows 10 now, and my >> past experience would lead me to believe that many enterprises stick with >> old versions of Windows long past when you think they would. >> >> Seems to me that if you are unwilling to deprecate python 2.7, then >> continuing to support Windows 7 is a no-brainer. You are more likely to get >> users to switch to python 3 than you are to get them to install a new >> operating system. >> >> And do you really want to drop support for platforms that your competitors >> still support? Given MXNet's market share, I wouldn't dream of dropping a >> platform until after the more popular frameworks have already done so. >> >> I also believe that it is possible to install more recent versions of >> Visual Studio on Windows 7. >> >> On 9/2/18, 1:57 AM, "kellen sunderland" <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Google analytics are sadly probably the best numbers we're going to >> get. >> Of course these numbers are likely to over-represent windows usage, as >> I'm >> sure many people are looking up documentation on a windows machine >> while >> ssh'd into a cloud instance or IoT device. >> >> What's the trend over time for these numbers Mu? Is Windows 7 usage >> relatively stable over the last year? >> >> On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 1:58 AM Mu Li <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> According to google analytics, ~12% users who visited mxnet's >> website are >>> using Windows 7. It's a significant number. Even though we cannot >> conclude >>> that all of these users will run MXNet on Windows 7, I suggest we >> still >>> support win7. >>> >>> BTW, anyone who can access mxnet's google analytics report can >> verify this >>> number by following this instruction: >>> >>> >> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1340778/detecting-windows-7-with-google-analytics >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 1:55 PM Steffen Rochel < >> [email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I support a data driven decision. Any suggestions how we can obtain >>> insight >>>> about OS usage of the MXNet user community? >>>> Can we get such information from pip install statistics or should >> we >>>> perform a user poll on the discussion forum? >>>> On the other hand the lack of data should not prevent us from >> moving >>>> forward and dropping support for outdated OS. >>>> In any case we would have to announce dropping a platform support >> at >>> least >>>> a release in advance. >>>> Steffen >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 12:21 PM Sheng Zha <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Kellen, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately, I don't have the >> usage data, >>>> so >>>>> I refrained from voting. If any of the voters have such data I'd >> love >>> to >>>>> see it too. >>>>> >>>>> -sz >>>>> >>>>> On 2018/08/30 14:58:09, kellen sunderland < >> [email protected] >>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> I haven't spoken to anyone about the decision (as I'm >> currently on an >>>>>> island in the med) but to me the quick +1s are likely a result >> of >>> this >>>>>> being a fairly straightforward decision. The factors that >> went into >>> my >>>>>> thinking were (1) prioritizing growing platforms rather than >>> shrinking >>>>>> platforms (i.e. thinking long term rather than shirt term) and >> (2) >>>>> earning >>>>>> our customers' trust. Claiming support for a platform when we >> can't >>>>>> realistically deliver it would lose us trust. I'd prefer to >> over >>>> deliver >>>>>> and under promise when it come to windows 7 for this reason. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now on the flip side one thing I would see as valuable is to >> try and >>>> get >>>>>> windows builds working with clang. This could be beneficial >> in the >>>> sense >>>>>> that it would be easy to maintain for mxnet devs and allow us >> to use >>>>> modern >>>>>> cpp on older windows machines without using vs 2013(which I >> consider >>> a >>>>>> non-starter with our codebase). >>>>>> >>>>>> You have peaked my curiousity though Sheng. How many win7 >> users does >>>>> MXNet >>>>>> have relative to macos/Linux? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 8:51 AM Sheng Zha <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Yuan, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No problem. This is an issue that's worth having a clear >>> definition, >>>> so >>>>>>> there's nothing wrong about your proposal, and thanks for >> bringing >>>>> this up. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm more concerned about the seemingly unanimous votes on >> dropping >>>>> support >>>>>>> on a platform without seeing the supporting evidence that >> it's the >>>>> right >>>>>>> thing. It is as if everyone who participated in the vote are >>> already >>>>> on the >>>>>>> same page, and somehow I'm the only one that's not. But the >> only >>>>> argument I >>>>>>> hear so far is that it's technically not straightforward to >>> continue >>>>> the >>>>>>> support, which, coming from Amazon folks, certainly doesn't >> sound >>>>>>> customer-obsessed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -sz >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:37 PM Lin Yuan < >> [email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Sheng, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this concern. The problem now is that we >>> cannot >>>>> even >>>>>>>> build MXNet on Windows 7 because the build process >> requires MS VS >>>>> 2015 w/ >>>>>>>> update 3 which is incompatible on Windows 7. This leaves >> many >>>>> Windows 7 >>>>>>>> related open issues on github without any timely response. >> In my >>>>> opinion, >>>>>>>> having no response to users' request is probably even >> worse than >>>>> letting >>>>>>>> them know the limitation of OS support. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To minimize the impact to current Windows 7 users, we can >> provide >>>>> PyPi >>>>>>>> package for Windows 7 in this release but defer the bug >> fix and >>>>> feature >>>>>>>> enhancement to later Windows OS version. Based on users' >>> feedbacks, >>>>> we >>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> then officially discontinue the Windows 7 support in the >> next >>> MXNet >>>>>>>> release. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I will appreciate your comments. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:37 PM Sheng Zha < >> [email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are any of the votes based on any measure of user >> impact, if we >>>>> indeed >>>>>>>>> decide not to fix the current problems? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -sz >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:29 PM Hagay Lupesko < >>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this Lin! >>>>>>>>>> Are you suggesting to do it as part of MXNet 1.3? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:14 AM Srivastava, Rohit >> Kumar < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 8/29/18, 8:39 AM, "sandeep krishnamurthy" < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> +1 Thanks for bringing this up. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 6:38 AM Marco de Abreu >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:08 PM kellen >> sunderland < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 1:18 AM Anirudh >> Acharya < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for discontinuing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 4:11 PM Naveen >> Swamy < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to stop supporting Win7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 3:54 PM Lin Yuan >> < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Community, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Currently, our MXNet installation >> guide for >>>>> Windows >>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows 7. e.g. Microsoft Visual >> Studio 2015 >>> is >>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> supported on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/support/vs2015/received-error-specified-program-requires-newer-version-windows/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In addition, MSFT ended “Mainstream” >> support >>>> for >>>>>>>> Windows >>>>>>>>> 7 >>>>>>>>>>> in 2015 >>>>>>>>>>>> ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, it is not possible for >> developers >>> to >>>>> build >>>>>>>>> MXNet >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> verify >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix on Windows 7 platform. Given that >> there >>>> have >>>>> been >>>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>>>>> issues >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MXNet error on Windows 7 (issue#9271 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/9271 >>>>>>>>> , >>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>>>> #8921 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/8921 >>>>>>>>> , >>>>>>>>>>> issue >>>>>>>>>>>>> #11163 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/11163 >>>>>>>>>> ), >>>>>>>>>>> it will >>>>>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more burden on developers in the >> future if we >>>>> were to >>>>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>>>>>>>>> supporting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows 7. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I therefore would like to propose that >> we >>>>> discontinue >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MXNet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Windows 7 in the next release. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, this means the following >>> required >>>>>>>> actions: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) state the discontinuation of >> Windows 7 >>>>> support in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> release >>>>>>>>>>>> note >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) update the MXNet webpage if Windows >>> version >>>> is >>>>>>>>>> mentioned. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) update the open Github issues >> related to >>>>> Windows 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please share your thoughts about this >>> proposal >>>>> and/or >>>>>>>>>>> suggest if >>>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other missing action item from the >> above. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Sandeep Krishnamurthy >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >>
