I've seen enough anecdotes to switch to -1. Visual Studio 2017 claims support for Windows 7: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/productinfo/vs2017-system-requirements-vs so I'm not sure if compiler support is really an issue.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 8:09 PM Joshua Z. Zhang <cheungc...@gmail.com> wrote: > I have contacted some friends in industry, they claim that some controller > PCs are still on win7 and have no plan to upgrade in near future, so I > would strongly go -1. > > In terms of build system on Windows 7, MS does give warnings in VS 2015, > but with compatibility mode, we can still install it without issue. So I > guess it’s marketing strategy not technical problem on MS side. > > Zhi > > > On Sep 4, 2018, at 9:02 AM, sebastianb <sebasti...@wolfram.com.INVALID> > wrote: > > > > One more data point: Mathematica still supports Windows 7 (with Platform > Update), and we use MXNet as a backend for our neural net framework. So I > would also vote against deprecating Windows 7 support. > > > >> On Sep 2, 2018, at 7:40 PM, Marco de Abreu < > marco.g.ab...@googlemail.com.INVALID> wrote: > >> > >> Thanks for the data and these quite important points. I agree and hereby > >> change my vote to -1. > >> > >> Barber, Christopher <christopher.bar...@analog.com> schrieb am So., 2. > Sep. > >> 2018, 18:56: > >> > >>> FWIW, my company is only beginning to transition to Windows 10 now, > and my > >>> past experience would lead me to believe that many enterprises stick > with > >>> old versions of Windows long past when you think they would. > >>> > >>> Seems to me that if you are unwilling to deprecate python 2.7, then > >>> continuing to support Windows 7 is a no-brainer. You are more likely > to get > >>> users to switch to python 3 than you are to get them to install a new > >>> operating system. > >>> > >>> And do you really want to drop support for platforms that your > competitors > >>> still support? Given MXNet's market share, I wouldn't dream of > dropping a > >>> platform until after the more popular frameworks have already done so. > >>> > >>> I also believe that it is possible to install more recent versions of > >>> Visual Studio on Windows 7. > >>> > >>> On 9/2/18, 1:57 AM, "kellen sunderland" <kellen.sunderl...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Google analytics are sadly probably the best numbers we're going to > >>> get. > >>> Of course these numbers are likely to over-represent windows usage, > as > >>> I'm > >>> sure many people are looking up documentation on a windows machine > >>> while > >>> ssh'd into a cloud instance or IoT device. > >>> > >>> What's the trend over time for these numbers Mu? Is Windows 7 usage > >>> relatively stable over the last year? > >>> > >>> On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 1:58 AM Mu Li <muli....@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> According to google analytics, ~12% users who visited mxnet's > >>> website are > >>>> using Windows 7. It's a significant number. Even though we cannot > >>> conclude > >>>> that all of these users will run MXNet on Windows 7, I suggest we > >>> still > >>>> support win7. > >>>> > >>>> BTW, anyone who can access mxnet's google analytics report can > >>> verify this > >>>> number by following this instruction: > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1340778/detecting-windows-7-with-google-analytics > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 1:55 PM Steffen Rochel < > >>> steffenroc...@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I support a data driven decision. Any suggestions how we can obtain > >>>> insight > >>>>> about OS usage of the MXNet user community? > >>>>> Can we get such information from pip install statistics or should > >>> we > >>>>> perform a user poll on the discussion forum? > >>>>> On the other hand the lack of data should not prevent us from > >>> moving > >>>>> forward and dropping support for outdated OS. > >>>>> In any case we would have to announce dropping a platform support > >>> at > >>>> least > >>>>> a release in advance. > >>>>> Steffen > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 12:21 PM Sheng Zha <zhash...@apache.org> > >>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Kellen, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately, I don't have the > >>> usage data, > >>>>> so > >>>>>> I refrained from voting. If any of the voters have such data I'd > >>> love > >>>> to > >>>>>> see it too. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -sz > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 2018/08/30 14:58:09, kellen sunderland < > >>> kellen.sunderl...@gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> I haven't spoken to anyone about the decision (as I'm > >>> currently on an > >>>>>>> island in the med) but to me the quick +1s are likely a result > >>> of > >>>> this > >>>>>>> being a fairly straightforward decision. The factors that > >>> went into > >>>> my > >>>>>>> thinking were (1) prioritizing growing platforms rather than > >>>> shrinking > >>>>>>> platforms (i.e. thinking long term rather than shirt term) and > >>> (2) > >>>>>> earning > >>>>>>> our customers' trust. Claiming support for a platform when we > >>> can't > >>>>>>> realistically deliver it would lose us trust. I'd prefer to > >>> over > >>>>> deliver > >>>>>>> and under promise when it come to windows 7 for this reason. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Now on the flip side one thing I would see as valuable is to > >>> try and > >>>>> get > >>>>>>> windows builds working with clang. This could be beneficial > >>> in the > >>>>> sense > >>>>>>> that it would be easy to maintain for mxnet devs and allow us > >>> to use > >>>>>> modern > >>>>>>> cpp on older windows machines without using vs 2013(which I > >>> consider > >>>> a > >>>>>>> non-starter with our codebase). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> You have peaked my curiousity though Sheng. How many win7 > >>> users does > >>>>>> MXNet > >>>>>>> have relative to macos/Linux? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 8:51 AM Sheng Zha <szha....@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hi Yuan, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> No problem. This is an issue that's worth having a clear > >>>> definition, > >>>>> so > >>>>>>>> there's nothing wrong about your proposal, and thanks for > >>> bringing > >>>>>> this up. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I'm more concerned about the seemingly unanimous votes on > >>> dropping > >>>>>> support > >>>>>>>> on a platform without seeing the supporting evidence that > >>> it's the > >>>>>> right > >>>>>>>> thing. It is as if everyone who participated in the vote are > >>>> already > >>>>>> on the > >>>>>>>> same page, and somehow I'm the only one that's not. But the > >>> only > >>>>>> argument I > >>>>>>>> hear so far is that it's technically not straightforward to > >>>> continue > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> support, which, coming from Amazon folks, certainly doesn't > >>> sound > >>>>>>>> customer-obsessed. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -sz > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:37 PM Lin Yuan < > >>> apefor...@gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hi Sheng, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this concern. The problem now is that we > >>>> cannot > >>>>>> even > >>>>>>>>> build MXNet on Windows 7 because the build process > >>> requires MS VS > >>>>>> 2015 w/ > >>>>>>>>> update 3 which is incompatible on Windows 7. This leaves > >>> many > >>>>>> Windows 7 > >>>>>>>>> related open issues on github without any timely response. > >>> In my > >>>>>> opinion, > >>>>>>>>> having no response to users' request is probably even > >>> worse than > >>>>>> letting > >>>>>>>>> them know the limitation of OS support. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> To minimize the impact to current Windows 7 users, we can > >>> provide > >>>>>> PyPi > >>>>>>>>> package for Windows 7 in this release but defer the bug > >>> fix and > >>>>>> feature > >>>>>>>>> enhancement to later Windows OS version. Based on users' > >>>> feedbacks, > >>>>>> we > >>>>>>>> can > >>>>>>>>> then officially discontinue the Windows 7 support in the > >>> next > >>>> MXNet > >>>>>>>>> release. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I will appreciate your comments. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Lin > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:37 PM Sheng Zha < > >>> szha....@gmail.com> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Are any of the votes based on any measure of user > >>> impact, if we > >>>>>> indeed > >>>>>>>>>> decide not to fix the current problems? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> -sz > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:29 PM Hagay Lupesko < > >>>> lupe...@gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for raising this Lin! > >>>>>>>>>>> Are you suggesting to do it as part of MXNet 1.3? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:14 AM Srivastava, Rohit > >>> Kumar < > >>>>>>>>>>> srivastava....@buckeyemail.osu.edu> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/29/18, 8:39 AM, "sandeep krishnamurthy" < > >>>>>>>>>>> sandeep.krishn...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 Thanks for bringing this up. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 6:38 AM Marco de Abreu > >>>>>>>>>>>> <marco.g.ab...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:08 PM kellen > >>> sunderland < > >>>>>>>>>>>>> kellen.sunderl...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 1:18 AM Anirudh > >>> Acharya < > >>>>>>>>>>>> anirudhk...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for discontinuing. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 4:11 PM Naveen > >>> Swamy < > >>>>>>>>>>> mnnav...@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to stop supporting Win7 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 3:54 PM Lin Yuan > >>> < > >>>>>>>>>>> apefor...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Community, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Currently, our MXNet installation > >>> guide for > >>>>>> Windows > >>>>>>>>> does > >>>>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>>>> work > >>>>>>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows 7. e.g. Microsoft Visual > >>> Studio 2015 > >>>> is > >>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>>>> supported on > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/support/vs2015/received-error-specified-program-requires-newer-version-windows/ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In addition, MSFT ended “Mainstream” > >>> support > >>>>> for > >>>>>>>>> Windows > >>>>>>>>>> 7 > >>>>>>>>>>>> in 2015 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ( > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ). > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, it is not possible for > >>> developers > >>>> to > >>>>>> build > >>>>>>>>>> MXNet > >>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> verify > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix on Windows 7 platform. Given that > >>> there > >>>>> have > >>>>>> been > >>>>>>>>>>> several > >>>>>>>>>>>>> issues > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MXNet error on Windows 7 (issue#9271 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > >>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/9271 > >>>>>>>>>> , > >>>>>>>>>>>> issue > >>>>>>>>>>>>> #8921 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > >>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/8921 > >>>>>>>>>> , > >>>>>>>>>>>> issue > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> #11163 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/11163 > >>>>>>>>>>> ), > >>>>>>>>>>>> it will > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more burden on developers in the > >>> future if we > >>>>>> were to > >>>>>>>>>>>> continue > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supporting > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows 7. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I therefore would like to propose that > >>> we > >>>>>> discontinue > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> support > >>>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MXNet > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Windows 7 in the next release. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specifically, this means the following > >>>> required > >>>>>>>>> actions: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) state the discontinuation of > >>> Windows 7 > >>>>>> support in > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> release > >>>>>>>>>>>>> note > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) update the MXNet webpage if Windows > >>>> version > >>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>> mentioned. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) update the open Github issues > >>> related to > >>>>>> Windows 7 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please share your thoughts about this > >>>> proposal > >>>>>> and/or > >>>>>>>>>>>> suggest if > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other missing action item from the > >>> above. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lin > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sandeep Krishnamurthy > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > >
