Right, great. My feeling from other Apache projects is that they're doing fine without forums -- if that's what we need to do to fit in with Apache, that's a very small price to pay, I think.
Gj On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Christian Lenz <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Geertjan, > > I think it is a step back but ok to remove the forum. Sure we have maling > lists, Slack, stackoverflow but to have a forum should not be a Problem > today. > > Anyway, we can discuss it on a new thread if necessary. Only to let you > know, what I think and what I see. Forums around the world still active and > are made for users and user questions. But as I said, if necessary, we can > dicuss it on an other thread. > > > Cheers > > Chris > > Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10 > > Von: Geertjan Wielenga > Gesendet: Montag, 27. November 2017 15:12 > An: [email protected] > Betreff: Re: Ending the @netbeans.org mailing lists. > > Hi Chris, > > I feel your pain. :-) However, we are going to simply have to compromise in > some areas -- and one of these is the forums. Moving to a foundation like > Apache means compromising on some points and compromising means sometimes > not getting what you would ideally want. So far, we have everything plus > more in many areas. Apache has been immensely supportive and the help we've > been given has been far more than I had expected. So, now it's our turn to > compromise -- no forums. > > Gj > > > On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 3:09 PM, Christian Lenz <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > I read the text and IMHO to not have a Forum is in my perspective not an > > Option. As you can see the Forum is still active, for the users you ask > > questions. Not everyone will join the Mailing lists. If there is no > > replacement in Apache, is there a Problem to move the Forum over to > Apache > > too? > > > > Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10 > > > > Von: Geertjan Wielenga > > Gesendet: Montag, 27. November 2017 14:03 > > An: [email protected] > > Betreff: Re: Ending the @netbeans.org mailing lists. > > > > OK, here's the final draft of the e-mail we'll send to all NetBeans.org > > mailing lists: > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/ > > [email protected]+mailing+lists > > > > There's a danger that at may end up being too long and so maybe not > > everyone will read all of it. :-) > > > > We'll send it to all NetBeans.org mailing lists, to the NetBeans forum, > > we'll make an announcement on NetBeans.org, we'll post it as an article > on > > JAXenter, we'll tweet it, we'll put it on Facebook. > > > > And we'll repeat it all over again a few times in the upcoming weeks -- > at > > some point, we'll have done all we can to announce this and then there'll > > still be those that didn't get the news. But we'll have done our best and > > that's the price we pay for working on an awesome project with a massive > > worldwide community. > > > > Feedback still welcome, from this point we're going to wait 24 hours for > > final feedback and then we'll send it out after that. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Gj > > > > On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 1:14 PM, Jiří Kovalský <[email protected] > > > > wrote: > > > > > Dne 27.11.2017 v 11:28 Geertjan Wielenga napsal(a): > > > > > >> On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 7:11 PM, Christian Lenz < > [email protected] > > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> IMHO it would be better to Keep the Mailing list until everyone or at > > >>> least we, migrated all or most of the tickets from bugzilla to JIRA, > > >>> because the users from the Mailing lists, gets notifications for > > changes > > >>> in > > >>> the tickets. > > >>> > > >> > > >> I think we should keep the discussion re bug tracker separate from the > > >> mailing list discussion. > > >> > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > -Jirka > > > > > > Cheers > > >>> > > >>> Chris > > >>> > > >>> Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10 > > >>> > > >>> Von: Ludovic HOCHET > > >>> Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. November 2017 17:53 > > >>> An: [email protected] > > >>> Betreff: Re: Ending the @netbeans.org mailing lists. > > >>> > > >>> The email looks good to me. > > >>> By the way, should the README.md "Get in touch" section be adjusted > > >>> along the same lines? > > >>> (remove the direct mails and point to the archives?) > > >>> > > >>> On 26 November 2017 at 11:19, Geertjan Wielenga > > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Here is the e-mail that will be sent out during this week, to all > the > > @ > > >>>> netbeans.org mailing lists, with the edits and additions provided > in > > >>>> > > >>> this > > >>> > > >>>> thread incorporated into it: > > >>>> > > >>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.a > > >>>> pache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_&d=DwIFaQ&c=RoP1YumCXC > > >>>> gaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2 > > >>>> xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=YuzFPS_ApwhHqUkn9ls1w4wDta9-HVgK_945Y7 > > >>>> vvOgU&s=c4LEwe0c9UXCCKrlH02S2BBrFxAx7c33tC58IQt1j1w&e= > > >>>> > > >>> [email protected]+mailing+lists > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks, > > >>>> > > >>>> Gj > > >>>> > > >>>> On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Geertjan Wielenga < > > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 3:03 PM, Ate Douma <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Please add wording that users migrating to the users@ or dev@ list > > >>>>>> should *subscribe* to those lists by sending an empty email to > > >>>>>> [email protected] or > > [email protected]. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> org > > >>> > > >>>> otherwise we (moderators) will get swamped... > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Good point, thanks. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Maybe also helpful to remark that you can anonymously browse the > mail > > >>>>>> archives via https://urldefense.proofpoint. > > >>>>>> com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.apache.org_list&d=DwIFaQ&c=RoP1 > > >>>>>> YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3Iehh > > >>>>>> QKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=YuzFPS_ApwhHqUkn9ls1w4wDta9- > > >>>>>> HVgK_945Y7vvOgU&s=TdXSUCVKlyVmiqXLGBNknsAI6VfjHKHJL4mHm_tL-e8&e=. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> [email protected] > > >>> > > >>>> and https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.a > > >>>>>> pache.org_list.html-3Fdev-40netbeans.apache.org&d=DwIFaQ&c=R > > >>>>>> oP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3I > > >>>>>> ehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=YuzFPS_ApwhHqUkn9ls1w4wDta9- > > >>>>>> HVgK_945Y7vvOgU&s=i4tEiAOWrUEYwPVraLIK8UnTRlZ3YK9hSdQg0xH5gtY&e= > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> All this typically is/should be documented already on the website, > > but > > >>>>>> as we don't have any real (ASF) content yet at > netbeans.apache.org > > >>>>>> new > > >>>>>> users easily will get lost. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Yup. In the meantime, and in addition, this is also listed here: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.a > > >>>>> pache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_How-2Bto-2BParticipate > > >>>>> &d=DwIFaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_ > > >>>>> Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=YuzFPS_ApwhHqUkn > > >>>>> 9ls1w4wDta9-HVgK_945Y7vvOgU&s=5BYp11L_3jCM_daAFMyiR8AmZX2A8m > > >>>>> 3KydznZXgUGxo&e= > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Gj > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> I think the website really needs to get priority attention, also > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> because > > >>> > > >>>> otherwise there is no place to communicate and provide the download > > >>>>>> links for the current HTML/Java API and upcoming platform > > releases... > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Ate > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On 2017-11-23 12:06, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Hi all, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> We should, at some stage, put an end to the various netbeans.org > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> mailing > > >>> > > >>>> lists, e.g., [email protected] and the dozen or so other > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> netbeans.org > > >>> > > >>>> mailing lists and ensure that everyone asks questions about NetBeans > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> on > > >>> > > >>>> the > > >>>>>>> Apache NetBeans mailing lists instead. Jiri Kovalsky and I, who > > have > > >>>>>>> managed the NetBeans.org mailing lists over the years, propose we > > >>>>>>> send > > >>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>> following to ALL the netbeans.org mailing lists at the beginning > > of > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> next > > >>> > > >>>> week. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Subject for the mail: “January 1st, 2018: End of @netbeans.org > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> Mailing > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>>> Lists and Forum" > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Text: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> “If you’ve been following Oracle's Apache NetBeans donation > > process, > > >>>>>>>> you’ll be aware that a large part of NetBeans is in Apache Git > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> already. > > >>> > > >>>> You > > >>>>>>>> should also be aware that mailing lists are available at Apache > > for > > >>>>>>>> purposes of discussing the development and usage of Apache > > NetBeans. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> By means of this e-mail, we’re letting you know that as of > January > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> 1st, > > >>> > > >>>> 2018, the @netbeans.org mailing lists will be deleted (they are > > >>>>>>>> archived > > >>>>>>>> at netbeans.markmail.org), all references to @netbeans.org > will, > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> where > > >>> > > >>>> possible, be replaced with references to Apache NetBeans mailing > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> lists, > > >>> > > >>>> and > > >>>>>>>> everyone will need to manually move to the Apache NetBeans @dev > ( > > >>>>>>>> [email protected]) and Apache NetBeans @user ( > > >>>>>>>> [email protected]) mailing lists. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Anyone asking questions about the usage of NetBeans, whether for > > >>>>>>> Java, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> JavaScript, C/C++, or any other language or technology, as well > as > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> those > > >>> > > >>>> using the NetBeans APIs for developing modules and applications, > will > > >>>>>>>> use > > >>>>>>>> the Apache NetBeans @user mailing list. If and when it turns out > > >>>>>>>> that > > >>>>>>>> too > > >>>>>>>> many developers of one category dominate the @user mailing > list, a > > >>>>>>>> separate > > >>>>>>>> Apache NetBeans mailing list will be created for them. The > Apache > > >>>>>>>> NetBeans > > >>>>>>>> @dev mailing list is specifically for those committed to working > > on > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> the > > >>> > > >>>> development of Apache NetBeans itself, as well as those committed to > > >>>>>>>> promoting and documenting it, via events and tutorials, etc. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Note that we will be discontinuing the web forums, i.e., > > >>>>>>>> forums.netbeans.org, and that in Apache there is no replacement > > for > > >>>>>>>> that > > >>>>>>>> — Apache projects work with mailing lists only. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Hoping to see you all on the Apache NetBeans mailing lists, > you’re > > >>>>>>>> encouraged to move there as soon as possible and to not write to > > the > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> @ > > >>> > > >>>> netbeans.org mailing lists anymore. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Kind regards, > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Geertjan & Jirka > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Feedback/comments welcome. We'd like to send the above to all > the @ > > >>>>>>> netbeans.org mailing lists at the beginning of next week. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Thanks, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Gj and Jirka > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Ludovic > > >>> ----------------------------------------- > > >>> > > >>> "Les formes qui differencient les etres importent peu > > >>> si leur pensees s'unissent pour batir un univers..." > > >>> Yoko Tsuno (in 'Les titans' by Roger Leloup) > > >>> [The shapes that differenciate beings are not important > > >>> if their thoughts unite to build a universe] > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > >
