Seems like a fair list of points to resolve. Let me know how you want to tackle it and if you'd like me to investigate any of them.
AsciiDoc provides an HTML5 backend [1] that should provide a hook to help it be consistent in some form with the rest of the site. [1] http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/asciidoc.css-embedded.html#X35 On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 8:10 AM, Matt Gilman <[email protected]> wrote: > Agreed. Lets see give it a try and see how it looks. I thought about > possibly just putting the drop in the toolbar but held off initially but > your comment about being consistently visible across all pages is on point. > This brings up another issue that the current documentation loads in a page > without the toolbar so that'll have to be addressed. Haven't messed with > bootstrap so I'll have to see what's possible. > > Outstanding issues... > > - Better integrate documentation pages into website > - Get updated images (and properly scale them) > - Update website markup for production use (what I did was quick and just > for the mockup so we continue this discussion) > > Anything else I'm forgetting? > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 12:26 AM, Aldrin Piri <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Matt, >> >> Looks good here. I think clean and simple is the right direction and this >> is just another step in that evolution. I think it is a matter of >> nit-picking at this point so the following comments come with that scope of >> importance. >> >> I would like to see the logo make it somewhere on the page consistently for >> the sake of keeping it across all pages in the site. I realize the logo in >> the navbar is rather redundant for the home page, but on all the other >> pages such as documentation and general project information, there will be >> no presence in the current state. One way to compromise might be to make >> use of the commonplace technique where the logo on the main content area >> gets placed into the navbar when scrolling would obscure the logo; all >> other pages would then just have it in the header. >> >> Maybe a slightly heavier weight on the navbar for the menu items. >> >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 22:51 Matt Gilman <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Aldrin, >> > >> > I like what you did here and it sounds like most people do too. I wanted >> to >> > provide some feedback and minor suggestions but thought it would just be >> > easier to mock it up myself rather than trying to ask you to move this >> here >> > and that there. Anyways, take a peek and lets continue iterating. I think >> > we're on the right track. >> > >> > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mcgilman/apache-nifi-site/ >> > screenshots/index.html.lite.v1.2.png >> > >> > Matt >> > >> > On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Joe Witt <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > Dan, >> > > >> > > No real thought behind it. But I personally agree with your statement: >> > > >> > > the logos look good as "nifi" and the text looks good as "NiFi" >> > > >> > > Thanks >> > > Joe >> > > >> > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 10:03 PM, Daniel Bress < >> [email protected]> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Aldrin, >> > > > I think this looks good. >> > > > >> > > > All, >> > > > Maybe this is a little off topic, but I noticed that the logos >> > > > consistently use "nifi" whereas in text its consistently written as >> > > > "NiFi". Any reason for the difference? >> > > > >> > > > I kind of thing the logos look good as "nifi" and the text looks >> > good >> > > > as "NiFi" so I might be questioning something that I am OK with. >> But I >> > > > noticed they are different and was wondering if this was a conscious >> > > > decision or not. Thoughts? >> > > > >> > > > Dan Bress >> > > > Software Engineer >> > > > ONYX Consulting Services >> > > > >> > > > ________________________________________ >> > > > From: Joe Witt <[email protected]> >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 6:40 PM >> > > > To: [email protected] >> > > > Subject: Re: Website Theme >> > > > >> > > > Solid design and agree with all your comments aldrin. Very nice >> > > > On Jan 20, 2015 6:27 PM, "Aldrin Piri" <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Mark, >> > > > > >> > > > > Thanks for the comments. >> > > > > >> > > > > I actuality tried it without the logo on the main page and it felt >> a >> > > > > bit empty. I don't know that we necessarily need the logo there, >> but >> > > > > something is needed. Additionally, I viewed it as being just a >> > "front >> > > > > page" inclusion, as other pages would just have the top navbar. >> > > > > >> > > > > You caught me. I was lazy and I recycled the screenshot from the >> > > > > first iteration. It would definitely need updating, but is largely >> > > > > just a placeholder for the concept. I would definitely like >> > something >> > > > > a bit more engaging. (faux edit) I rearranged things a bit, >> removing >> > > > > the second instance of the logo and placing more emphasis on the >> one >> > > > > in the corner of the application. Not sure if I like it better, >> but >> > > > > I've provided the results [1] with all three of the submissions >> shown >> > > > > in chronological order [2]. >> > > > > >> > > > > The news section is a toss-up for me at this juncture. I could see >> > > > > the need one for eventually, but I'm not sure if the project is >> quite >> > > > > there yet. It seemed a common thread among incubating sites that >> > such >> > > > > a section was omitted whereas those top-level projects typically >> > > > > included one. Given that the project is on the verge on the first >> of >> > > > > the regular releases, perhaps this is increasingly pertinent in the >> > > > > near future. At minimum, one of the screen grabs from your blog >> > posts >> > > > > would be a good candidate. >> > > > > >> > > > > [1] >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/apiri/apache-nifi-site/scr >> > eenshots/index.html.lite.v1.1.png >> > > > > [2] >> > > https://github.com/apiri/apache-nifi-site/blob/screenshots/README.md >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Mark Payne <[email protected] >> > >> > > > wrote: >> > > > > > Aldrin, >> > > > > > I'm liking it! Definitely looks nice. Though I would provide a >> bit >> > of >> > > > > feedback: >> > > > > > I'm not sure that I would include the NiFi logo on the right-hand >> > > side, >> > > > > since it's already in the top-left. >> > > > > > From a NiFi 'brand' perspective, I would update the screenshot a >> > bit. >> > > > > This screenshot is using the old logo in the top-left corner, and >> the >> > > > graph >> > > > > shows all of the data disappearing before the RouteOnAttribute >> > > Processor. >> > > > > I'd recommend we construct a dataflow that's more appealing to the >> > > target >> > > > > audience, perhaps integrating with other Apache projects (HDFS, >> Kafka >> > > are >> > > > > possible, for instance) or using (S)FTP processor. >> > > > > > Does it make sense to have maybe like a 'Latest News' section or >> > > > > something where we could post things like "Version 0.0.1 just >> > > released!" >> > > > > etc.? >> > > > > > I'm really liking the concept - nice job! >> > > > > > Thanks-Mark >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 07:00:52 -0800 >> > > > > >> Subject: Re: Website Theme >> > > > > >> From: [email protected] >> > > > > >> To: [email protected] >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> I like it. >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 8:50 PM, Aldrin Piri < >> > [email protected]> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> > I found some time today to provide another look for the site. >> > > There >> > > > > >> > were very minor changes to the core HTML as is currently >> served >> > at >> > > > > >> > nidi homepage and it is largely just a stylesheet. This one >> is >> > > > highly >> > > > > >> > minimal and clean, still driven by Bootstrap and directly >> makes >> > > use >> > > > of >> > > > > >> > the colors from the UI itself. >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > A screenshot can be seen at >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/apiri/apache-nifi-site/scr >> > eenshots/index.html.lite.png >> > > > > >> > with the associated code under the "lite" branch at >> > > > > >> > https://github.com/apiri/apache-nifi-site/tree/lite >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > Any thoughts are appreciated. >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 9:54 PM, Aldrin Piri < >> > [email protected] >> > > > >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > Sorry if this somehow gets sent twice. My first submission >> > > > seemed >> > > > > to >> > > > > >> > > bounce as it exceeded the spam threshold when I sent it a >> > couple >> > > > of >> > > > > >> > > hours ago and it has yet to appear, so I'm sending again. >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > First and foremost, good feedback. I think UI/UX stuff is >> > > tricky >> > > > > and >> > > > > >> > > I am happy to find my livelihood in the plumbing and behind >> > the >> > > > > scenes >> > > > > >> > > work. >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > Here's my attempt to try and tackle all the comments in one >> > fell >> > > > > swoop: >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > I agree that Bootstrap is everywhere, but I don't >> necessarily >> > > > think >> > > > > >> > > that is a bad thing. One could argue that interfaces of all >> > > forms >> > > > > are >> > > > > >> > > converging and users have the instant familiarity of a known >> > > > > quantity. >> > > > > >> > > I know that I am totally unaware of what it takes to make a >> > site >> > > > > both >> > > > > >> > > functional and maintain its feel across devices. I think >> that >> > > > last >> > > > > >> > > part is important. Personally, as a user on the other side >> of >> > > the >> > > > > >> > > screen, I don't really understand why sites do not work or >> > jive >> > > > with >> > > > > >> > > my mobile device du jour these days; it should just work. >> > With >> > > > what >> > > > > >> > > little I've learned about UX and "Not Making [Anyone] >> > > Think,"[1] I >> > > > > >> > > want an effortless experience; no pinch zooming, tap >> panning, >> > > etc. >> > > > > If >> > > > > >> > > there is a way to take bits and pieces of bootstrap to this >> > end >> > > to >> > > > > >> > > support that aspect without the cookie cutter air, I would >> be >> > > > quite >> > > > > >> > > thankful for some guidance on that front and do my best to >> > > provide >> > > > > it. >> > > > > >> > > Out of the box though, the sample looked pretty decent >> across >> > > all >> > > > > the >> > > > > >> > > devices to which I had access, and used constructs everyone >> > who >> > > > > views >> > > > > >> > > content through a tiny screen is accustomed. >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > I do agree on the front of the possibility of brand >> dilution, >> > > and >> > > > I >> > > > > >> > > think it is an excellent point for consideration. As >> > mentioned >> > > in >> > > > > my >> > > > > >> > > original mailing, consideration was given to integrating the >> > > > > >> > > application's aesthetics into the core site. Not sure if >> this >> > > > will >> > > > > >> > > pan out in an appreciable way as I can see it in my mind, >> but >> > I >> > > do >> > > > > >> > > feel it is an avenue worth exploring. It may also >> completely >> > > miss >> > > > > the >> > > > > >> > > mark, but with my new found web dev prowess, it should be a >> > much >> > > > > >> > > quicker iteration than the first draft. You'll see a slight >> > > > homage >> > > > > to >> > > > > >> > > this via the graph wallpaper that is featured in the >> > application >> > > > > >> > > itself. This was muted a bit by a CSS overlay to a level >> that >> > > > > seemed >> > > > > >> > > okay, but I definitely hedged as to whether or not to >> include >> > > it. >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > Ultimately, I wanted to get something out to start the ball >> > > > rolling, >> > > > > >> > > establishing a base for successive iterations. I know that >> > with >> > > > all >> > > > > >> > > the hard work everyone is putting in, the project is closely >> > > > > reaching >> > > > > >> > > its first milestone for release, and thought it important to >> > > chip >> > > > in >> > > > > >> > > where possible to give a face to the project. >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > Additionally, I think this particular project needs pictures >> > to >> > > > > >> > > demonstrate what it's capabilities. One of the facets that >> > > makes >> > > > > me a >> > > > > >> > > believer about NiFi as a whole is that the end user is not >> > just >> > > > > >> > > developers. Citing the previous example of Accumulo, its >> > > intended >> > > > > >> > > audience is very technical in nature and, accordingly, a lot >> > can >> > > > be >> > > > > >> > > expressed via the simple phrase of "key-value store." I >> would >> > > > > contend >> > > > > >> > > that NiFi's reach is far broader and can't be done justice >> > with >> > > a >> > > > > >> > > simple phrase. For the casual potential user who has strung >> > > > > together >> > > > > >> > > n-many processes of taking a file, manually transforming it, >> > and >> > > > > >> > > moving it elsewhere, they need to see at quick glance that >> > there >> > > > is >> > > > > >> > > something that can automate this tedium and make them more >> > > > > effective. >> > > > > >> > > Succinctly, the value proposition needs to be there not only >> > for >> > > > the >> > > > > >> > > technical folks who will use this as a framework, but >> > > additionally >> > > > > for >> > > > > >> > > end users. >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > The background for the header isn't awesome, but I knew I >> > wasn't >> > > > > >> > > violating any licenses if I generated it myself. I viewed >> it >> > > more >> > > > > as >> > > > > >> > > a placeholder than anything else. Definitely not a front >> end >> > > web >> > > > > >> > > developer, even more definitively not a graphic artist. The >> > > > colors >> > > > > >> > > came from starting with the logo dark blue and running a >> whole >> > > > bunch >> > > > > >> > > of filters and plugins via GIMP to get something. >> > Additionally, >> > > > > there >> > > > > >> > > is a CSS gradient applied over top of it as well when it >> > seemed >> > > a >> > > > > bit >> > > > > >> > > too loud. It could definitely deal with being muted a bit >> > more. >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > [1] http://www.sensible.com/dmmt.html >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Tony Kurc < >> [email protected]> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > >> Hey! It looks awesome! The existing site was put together a >> > > > > placeholder >> > > > > >> > and >> > > > > >> > >> we went with a very generic layout that worked well with >> > Apache >> > > > > CMS and >> > > > > >> > >> contained all the information expected of an apache >> process. >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> This is a big improvement! For people new to the project, >> it >> > > > gives >> > > > > a >> > > > > >> > nice >> > > > > >> > >> upfront screenshot, with big fat links for things I care >> > about >> > > > > people >> > > > > >> > >> seeing! >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> Some things I didn't like about the existing site are the >> > > > glyphicon >> > > > > >> > links >> > > > > >> > >> to "external" sites on the menu. I used "link", but I think >> > it >> > > > was >> > > > > >> > meant to >> > > > > >> > >> be used for "permalink". Also, we kind of took a best guess >> > > about >> > > > > what >> > > > > >> > >> should go in each dropdown in the menu. I'm pretty sure it >> > > could >> > > > be >> > > > > >> > better >> > > > > >> > >> organized. I'd also like to see the awesome guides that >> > people >> > > > > wrote >> > > > > >> > have a >> > > > > >> > >> consistent theme with the website and maybe have pdfs so >> > > > old-school >> > > > > >> > folks >> > > > > >> > >> can print them out (which may be a dumb idea ;) ) A pet >> peeve >> > > of >> > > > > mine of >> > > > > >> > >> projects is having a hard time finding the documentation I >> > > need, >> > > > > like >> > > > > >> > >> javadocs or specifications - and keeping around the older >> > > > versions >> > > > > of >> > > > > >> > the >> > > > > >> > >> documentation. I think we're still working on these - since >> > you >> > > > > retained >> > > > > >> > >> the menu up top it should be straightforward to have a >> robust >> > > > > >> > documentation >> > > > > >> > >> dropdown. >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> The blue you used is more of a reddish or purplish blue - >> the >> > > > blue >> > > > > used >> > > > > >> > in >> > > > > >> > >> the app is more of a greenish blue. I'm kind of curious >> what >> > a >> > > > > greener >> > > > > >> > blue >> > > > > >> > >> would look like ... did you mock one up and it looked bad? >> Or >> > > > > maybe a >> > > > > >> > more >> > > > > >> > >> fundamental question, should the website evoke the theme of >> > the >> > > > > app? I >> > > > > >> > >> don't know how I feel. >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> Tony >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Joe Witt < >> > [email protected]> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > >> >> > > > > >> > >>> I'd say the two sides of the spectrum as examples are: >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > > > > >> > >>> http://kafka.apache.org/ [super minimalist] >> > > > > >> > >>> http://aurora.incubator.apache.org/ [ quite fancy >> looking ] >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > > > > >> > >>> Both in my opinion are beautifully done and make it easy >> to >> > > get >> > > > > the >> > > > > >> > content >> > > > > >> > >>> needed. >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > > > > >> > >>> I think these (and others) provide great examples that >> both >> > > > sides >> > > > > of >> > > > > >> > the >> > > > > >> > >>> spectrum have merit. >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > > > > >> > >>> What is most important to me is that we as a community >> rally >> > > > > behind >> > > > > >> > those >> > > > > >> > >>> with the expertise and willingness to contribute in this >> > > space. >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > > > > >> > >>> Thanks >> > > > > >> > >>> Joe >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > > > > >> > >>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Joe Witt < >> > [email protected] >> > > > >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > > > > >> > >>> > Both are bootstrap based. Each is an iterative >> > improvement. >> > > > > And we >> > > > > >> > just >> > > > > >> > >>> > keep iterating as folks have time, willingness, and >> > > expertise >> > > > > to do >> > > > > >> > so. >> > > > > >> > >>> > >> > > > > >> > >>> > I agree that this new look does not distinguish a brand. >> > > But >> > > > > we're >> > > > > >> > not >> > > > > >> > >>> > mature enough to worry about that yet. We just need >> > enough >> > > of >> > > > > the >> > > > > >> > right >> > > > > >> > >>> > info laid out enough to help grow a community and get >> > folks >> > > > the >> > > > > info >> > > > > >> > they >> > > > > >> > >>> > need. We need it laid out in a way that multiple folks >> > can >> > > > > >> > contribute. >> > > > > >> > >>> > Once we have a release, recruit some committers, >> > demonstrate >> > > > > >> > progress on >> > > > > >> > >>> > the Apache Way and grow then perhaps branding becomes a >> > > bigger >> > > > > deal. >> > > > > >> > >>> > >> > > > > >> > >>> > ..this motivates me to spawn another thread about the >> type >> > > of >> > > > > >> > community >> > > > > >> > >>> we >> > > > > >> > >>> > want to be... >> > > > > >> > >>> > >> > > > > >> > >>> > Thanks >> > > > > >> > >>> > Joe >> > > > > >> > >>> > >> > > > > >> > >>> > >> > > > > >> > >>> > On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Adam Taft < >> > > [email protected] >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > wrote: >> > > > > >> > >>> > >> > > > > >> > >>> >> This isn't a downvote -- I think it indeed looks good. >> > But >> > > > in >> > > > > >> > terms of >> > > > > >> > >>> >> constructive criticism... >> > > > > >> > >>> >> >> > > > > >> > >>> >> I think the mockup looks like a very generic >> "bootstrap" >> > > > site, >> > > > > >> > similar >> > > > > >> > >>> to >> > > > > >> > >>> >> a >> > > > > >> > >>> >> million other bootstrap based sites. I'd personally >> > almost >> > > > > prefer >> > > > > >> > the >> > > > > >> > >>> >> existing utilitarian website over a bootstrap theme, >> > simply >> > > > > because >> > > > > >> > it >> > > > > >> > >>> >> doesn't try to be anything more than what it is. >> > > > > >> > >>> >> >> > > > > >> > >>> >> This approach might be an acceptable tradeoff for the >> > > > project; >> > > > > >> > having >> > > > > >> > >>> the >> > > > > >> > >>> >> bootstrap look & feel is obviously a resource savings >> and >> > > > > available >> > > > > >> > at >> > > > > >> > >>> the >> > > > > >> > >>> >> right price point. But the site mockup definitely >> > doesn't >> > > > > >> > distinguish >> > > > > >> > >>> the >> > > > > >> > >>> >> Apache NiFi "brand" in anyway. In fact the opposite, >> the >> > > > brand >> > > > > gets >> > > > > >> > >>> >> watered >> > > > > >> > >>> >> down with this look. >> > > > > >> > >>> >> >> > > > > >> > >>> >> As a funny side note, humorously for me, this was the >> > first >> > > > > thought >> > > > > >> > in >> > > > > >> > >>> my >> > > > > >> > >>> >> head when I saw the site: >> > > > > >> > http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2010-04-01/ >> > > > > >> > >>> >> >> > > > > >> > >>> >> Adam >> > > > > >> > >>> >> >> > > > > >> > >>> >> >> > > > > >> > >>> >> On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 7:39 PM, Aldrin Piri < >> > > > > [email protected]> >> > > > > >> > >>> wrote: >> > > > > >> > >>> >> >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > In partial fulfillment of the goals of NIFI-162, I >> set >> > > some >> > > > > time >> > > > > >> > aside >> > > > > >> > >>> >> to >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > put together something a bit more visually appealing >> > as a >> > > > > face >> > > > > >> > for the >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > project. >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > My work can be found at: >> > > > > >> > https://github.com/apiri/apache-nifi-site >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > Currently, work focused around the homepage, but >> > similar >> > > > > styles >> > > > > >> > would >> > > > > >> > >>> be >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > applied to more content driven pages minus the large >> > > > > headlining >> > > > > >> > >>> >> sections. >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > The relevant technology colophon is provided in the >> > > README >> > > > on >> > > > > >> > Github >> > > > > >> > >>> >> but is >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > primarily driven by Bootstrap, existing image >> resources >> > > > > included >> > > > > >> > with >> > > > > >> > >>> >> the >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > project and current site, and other "artwork" which I >> > > > created >> > > > > >> > myself. >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > I am neither a UX expert nor am I a renowned front >> end >> > > > > designer, >> > > > > >> > so >> > > > > >> > >>> all >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > input is welcome. As a "version 1.1" I would like to >> > > > adjust >> > > > > the >> > > > > >> > site >> > > > > >> > >>> to >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > converge more with the application. Ideas for this >> are >> > > > > inclusive >> > > > > >> > of >> > > > > >> > >>> >> points >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > such as bringing the toolbar styling and color scheme >> > > from >> > > > > the >> > > > > >> > >>> >> application >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > to the site. >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > If this seems like a reasonable path forward and >> there >> > is >> > > > > >> > sufficient >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > support, I can look at the next steps to get this >> > > > integrated >> > > > > with >> > > > > >> > the >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > project, optimization, and integration with the >> > > application >> > > > > >> > itself. >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > To aid in showing the intangibles that can't be seen >> > from >> > > > an >> > > > > >> > image, I >> > > > > >> > >>> >> have >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > a copy of this design hosted at >> > > > > >> > http://aldrinpiri.com/apache-nifi/. >> > > > > >> > >>> The >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > links are currently nonfunctional as they were taken >> > from >> > > > the >> > > > > >> > current >> > > > > >> > >>> >> site. >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > Thanks! >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > --Aldrin >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > >> > > > > >> > >>> >> >> > > > > >> > >>> > >> > > > > >> > >>> > >> > > > > >> > >>> >> > > > > >> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >>
