-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; [email protected]
Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
Hi Larry,
On May 18, 2009, at 9:58 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
Craig Russell complained:
First, let me be clear. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to understand
just what we need to do in our public face to be compliant with an
Apache policy that allows Apache to promote and enforce our marks.
My questions really are just questions. They are not rhetorical or
argumentative. Please don't read any belligerence into the questions.
You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
lawyers
get hold of it.
I'm aware of the pain that causes, and I don't want to turn Apache
web pages
into legalese.
The first major use of a trademark on a web page ought to be, in
some way, a
combination of the trademark as an adjective modifying the
"official" noun.
The trouble for OpenJPA is that there's no "official" noun. "Software"
is certainly an appropriate noun, as are "program", "library",
"package", and "implementation". So should we choose for each project
an official noun and be consistent with its "first use" on each web
page?
That is so you can educate your readers about your trademark and your
product. But it needn't be in sentence form, nor even contain words
in their
normal English usages or sequence. There are lots of creative ways to
introduce trademarks to the public.
So I totally approve of your "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of
Sun's
Java Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent
persistence of
Java objects."
This confuses me. The use of OpenJPA here seems like a noun.
You needn't say "OpenJPA software" since you said "OpenJPA
implementation".
Not exactly. It doesn't say "OpenJPA implementation is Apache's
implementation". It would actually sound better to me to say "OpenJPA
software is Apache's implementation."
So if it's not a noun, it would never be ok to say "OpenJPA is
<something>". It would have to be "OpenJPA Software is <something>."
They sort of mean the same thing, I think. I'd want you to be more
precise
if I intended to file a trademark registration with the USPTO, but
for a
common law trademark, I think that works just fine. Maybe I'd ask that
somewhere you say "click here to download Apache OpenJPA software."
That's easy to do once we understand the rules.
But otherwise, don't change that website.
What I objected to in my previous email was the first sentence on your
http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html page, "OpenJPA's unit
tests are
written using JUnit." That sentence doesn't give anyone a clue what
noun the
adjective OpenJPA modifies. Nor have I ever seen an apostrophe-s on an
English adjective. :-)
Right, back to our noun versus adjective. The sentence doesn't make
sense with OpenJPA as an adjective. As an adjective, it could be
"OpenJPA unit tests", since part of the OpenJPA implementation
consists of unit tests. But OpenJPA is not just unit tests. It's also
a functional piece of software.
But our official documentation is full of "OpenJPA as noun" and not
"OpenJPA as adjective". So I'm really struggling with whether it's
just the "first use" on a page that needs to use OpenJPA Software or
not.
/Larry (with my English teacher hat on that I dug out of the very
back of my
closet)
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 2:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; [email protected]
Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
Hi Larry,
On May 18, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
3. Trademarks should be used as adjectives, not nouns. So the
following
sentence is incorrect trademark usage: "OpenJPA's unit tests are
written
using JUnit." Consider rewriting as "Unit tests for Apache OpenJPA
persistence project software are written using the JUnit testing
framework."
Always assume that customers have to be taught to associate the
trademark
with the noun in modifies. Once they've done that in their minds,
then you
have a very valuable trademark.
/Larry
You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once
lawyers
get hold of it.
Where we say "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
of
Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
and technical details on the use of OpenJPA." we would have to say,
instead, "OpenJPA software is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence
of
Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
and technical details on the use of OpenJPA software."
Did I get this right?
Thanks,
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:49 AM
To: ASF PRC Team
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
Hi PRC,
We've finished updating the OpenJPA web site master pages to
include
Apache trademarks in an obvious but not obtrusive way.
http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html is an example.
Please let us know if this is in accordance with the current
trademark
notice policy.
Thanks,
Craig
Craig L Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:[email protected]
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Craig L Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:[email protected]
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Craig L Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:[email protected]
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
