Updated per Tim's comments in the document plus the Apache footer. I didn't see anything in legal for these types of documents so I just used the Apache Copyright footer, if that is incorrect let me know.
On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 8:23 AM, Tim Ellison <[email protected]> wrote: > On 21/09/16 13:13, Suneel Marthi wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Tim Ellison <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> On 21/09/16 11:36, Suneel Marthi wrote: > >>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Tim Ellison <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On 21/09/16 02:40, Darin Johnson wrote: > >>>>> Suneel, a google doc as promised, only a day late (sorry - sick kid). > >>>>> > >>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K8E0TridC1hBfqDwWCqdZ8Dj_5_ > >>>> mMrRQyynQ-Q6MFbI/edit?usp=sharing > >>>>> > >>>>> I was planning on working on this, but I'm going to take a day or two > >> to > >>>>> let others comment. > >>>> > >>>> Just swapping to my mentoring hat for a moment... > >>>> > >>>> If you are going to use non-ASF resources for project materials, you > >>>> should make it clear under what terms those materials are offered. > >>>> > >>>> When we all discuss code and ideas on the ASF's mailing lists, JIRAs, > >>>> wiki pages, etc, it is understood that these are contributions under > the > >>>> ALv2 for inclusion in the project; but if I point you to Pirk related > >>>> material on my Google account, personal blog, or corporate website > then > >>>> it can become ambiguous as to how that material may be used. > >>>> > >>>> That's why I'm a proponent for keeping things on ASF infrastructure > >>>> unless there is a big win for doing it elsewhere that justifies making > >>>> the terms of that new location explicit. > >>>> > >>>> In this particular case, if you need the ability to simultaneously > edit > >>>> the document (or some other Google docs feature) then I'd advise > adding > >>>> an ALv2 footer [1]; otherwise why not just use our wiki? [2] > >>>> > >>>> [1] e.g. Licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0. > >>>> [2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/PIRK > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Tim > >>>> > >>> > >>> Point noted. Between creating a Wiki page and a Google Doc, to me > Google > >>> doc takes a lot less time and its easier for others to comment and > >> modify. > >>> The Wiki has problems of its own, know all too well from having to > >> approve > >>> the monthly incubator reports and see how much time u spend waiting for > >> the > >>> login screen to show up and before u r granted access :-) > >>> > >>> The actual discussions are still happening on mailing lists which point > >> to > >>> the Google docs, so what's the issue here? If adding an ALv2 footer > >> makes > >>> a google doc ASF legitimate - fine. > >>> > >>> I pointed to an example of how Flink is doing process and feature > >>> improvements which is using - project Wiki, Google Docs and all > >> discussions > >>> happening on mailing lists - > >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage. > >> action?pageId=65870673 > >>> > >>> There are other projects doing things similarly - projects like Kudu, > and > >>> others even have public slack channels. We can go and start picking on > >>> every one of those and start crying foul. We can still use the old - > >>> fashioned IRC channels (or its ultra modern avatars like Slack which I > >>> would very much prefer). > >> > >> I'm no apologist for ASF infrastructure, which tends to be a lowest > >> common denominator. There is always lots of discussion on the infra > >> lists about moving things on. > >> > >> My point is that putting a link on this list to material hosted > >> elsewhere does not make it a contribution. I am simply doing my mentor > >> duty to ensure people are aware of that and (a) mark things as > >> contributions where they are so, and (b) don't take things from > >> elsewhere without checking the terms first. > >> > >> Of course, I'm not suggesting anything bad has occurred here. > >> > >> If other PMCs have less focus on this, that's for them to consider, but > >> I have direct personal experience of an Apache project being part of a > >> very expensive court case over its contributions so I am hyper-sensitive > >> to it. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Tim > >> > > > > Apologies for my response. I see your point of view and concur. Would it > > suffice to add an ASF legal footer to the Google doc? The Google doc > lives > > as long as we are hashing out the design, once implemented the Wiki would > > be the permanent home and the Google doc ceases to exist. > > Yes to all. I'll let Darin add it as he wrote the doc. > > I didn't mean this to be a big deal :-( and as this is all material that > is on the list anyway it's a poor example. > > Regards, > Tim > >
