Updated per Tim's comments in the document plus the Apache footer. I didn't
see anything in legal for these types of documents so I just used the
Apache Copyright footer, if that is incorrect let me know.

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 8:23 AM, Tim Ellison <t.p.elli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 21/09/16 13:13, Suneel Marthi wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Tim Ellison <t.p.elli...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 21/09/16 11:36, Suneel Marthi wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Tim Ellison <t.p.elli...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 21/09/16 02:40, Darin Johnson wrote:
> >>>>> Suneel, a google doc as promised, only a day late (sorry - sick kid).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K8E0TridC1hBfqDwWCqdZ8Dj_5_
> >>>> mMrRQyynQ-Q6MFbI/edit?usp=sharing
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I was planning on working on this, but I'm going to take a day or two
> >> to
> >>>>> let others comment.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just swapping to my mentoring hat for a moment...
> >>>>
> >>>> If you are going to use non-ASF resources for project materials, you
> >>>> should make it clear under what terms those materials are offered.
> >>>>
> >>>> When we all discuss code and ideas on the ASF's mailing lists, JIRAs,
> >>>> wiki pages, etc, it is understood that these are contributions under
> the
> >>>> ALv2 for inclusion in the project; but if I point you to Pirk related
> >>>> material on my Google account, personal blog, or corporate website
> then
> >>>> it can become ambiguous as to how that material may be used.
> >>>>
> >>>> That's why I'm a proponent for keeping things on ASF infrastructure
> >>>> unless there is a big win for doing it elsewhere that justifies making
> >>>> the terms of that new location explicit.
> >>>>
> >>>> In this particular case, if you need the ability to simultaneously
> edit
> >>>> the document (or some other Google docs feature) then I'd advise
> adding
> >>>> an ALv2 footer [1]; otherwise why not just use our wiki? [2]
> >>>>
> >>>> [1] e.g. Licensed under the Apache License, Version 2.0.
> >>>> [2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/PIRK
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Tim
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Point noted. Between creating a Wiki page and a Google Doc, to me
> Google
> >>> doc takes a lot less time and its easier for others to comment and
> >> modify.
> >>> The Wiki has problems of its own, know all too well from having to
> >> approve
> >>> the monthly incubator reports and see how much time u spend waiting for
> >> the
> >>> login screen to show up and before u r granted access :-)
> >>>
> >>> The actual discussions are still happening on mailing lists which point
> >> to
> >>> the Google docs, so what's the issue here?  If adding an ALv2 footer
> >> makes
> >>> a google doc ASF legitimate - fine.
> >>>
> >>> I pointed to an example of how Flink is doing process and feature
> >>> improvements which is using - project Wiki, Google Docs and all
> >> discussions
> >>> happening on mailing lists -
> >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.
> >> action?pageId=65870673
> >>>
> >>> There are other projects doing things similarly - projects like Kudu,
> and
> >>> others even have public slack channels. We can go and start picking on
> >>> every one of those and start crying foul.  We can still use the old -
> >>> fashioned IRC channels (or its ultra modern avatars like Slack which I
> >>> would very much prefer).
> >>
> >> I'm no apologist for ASF infrastructure, which tends to be a lowest
> >> common denominator.  There is always lots of discussion on the infra
> >> lists about moving things on.
> >>
> >> My point is that putting a link on this list to material hosted
> >> elsewhere does not make it a contribution.  I am simply doing my mentor
> >> duty to ensure people are aware of that and (a) mark things as
> >> contributions where they are so, and (b) don't take things from
> >> elsewhere without checking the terms first.
> >>
> >> Of course, I'm not suggesting anything bad has occurred here.
> >>
> >> If other PMCs have less focus on this, that's for them to consider, but
> >> I have direct personal experience of an Apache project being part of a
> >> very expensive court case over its contributions so I am hyper-sensitive
> >> to it.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Tim
> >>
> >
> > Apologies for my response. I see your point of view and concur. Would it
> > suffice to add an ASF legal footer to the Google doc? The Google doc
> lives
> > as long as we are hashing out the design, once implemented the Wiki would
> > be the permanent home and the Google doc ceases to exist.
>
> Yes to all.  I'll let Darin add it as he wrote the doc.
>
> I didn't mean this to be a big deal :-( and as this is all material that
> is on the list anyway it's a poor example.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>

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