On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 12:12 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Sameera Jayasoma <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> See my comments inline. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:49 PM, Sameera Jayasoma <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Azeez, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 5:49 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Azeez don't we need the management API in worker nodes? I assume the >>>>>>> answer is yes .. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you look at the current worker-manager separated setup, we don't >>>>>> have a single instance where the management node BE or FE calls into the >>>>>> worker node BE. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I agree that worker nodes do not require administrative services. But >>>>> for Management node, we need to maintain the BE/FE separation. I.e we need >>>>> to keep the administration services as its. This would user to write their >>>>> own UI layer to interact with our server. This exactly what AppFactory is >>>>> doing right? In some of the project I've worked, we developed completely >>>>> different UI to interact with Mgt nodes. So IMV, we still need that BE >>>>> services. >>>>> >>>> >>>> FE-BE separation means from the UI components we make service calls to >>>> the BE components. What we need is management APIs. Our UI can simply use >>>> these management APIs. We don't need FE-BE separation. External apps can >>>> also call these management APIs. >>>> >>> >>> Okay. so anyway we need to expose our management APIs as service >>> right?. >>> >>> I was under the impression that FE-BE separation means a clear >>> separation of UI layer from the BE layer. some how we ended up connecting >>> FE layer to BE layer via web services communication. But we tried to >>> connect FE to BE via Java calls via OSGi services approach. Thats didn't >>> work due to some security issues. >>> >>> Anyway still we need to clearly separate FE components from the >>> management APIs right? But we need to figure out an efficient and secure >>> way to connect the FE to BE. >>> >> >> I guess where I am getting at is, we have RESTful APIs, which will be >> called by code running in the Web Browser. Yes, I am suggesting that we go >> back to the old AJAX based UI model we had, but without the pain of XSLT >> (in the old model). >> >> FE = jquery + HTML+ (Jaggery?) >> BE= RESTful APIs (Jaggery?) >> >> FE <--- JSON --> BE >> > > Does this make sense? This is not FE-BE separation. FE-BE separation meant > that the FE runs on one JVM & BE runs on another. My argument is that with > the management-worker node concept, we don't need that anymore. Nobody will > run the FE on a separate JVM. > Wonderful!!! Big +1 from me. I like this approach. I wrote couple of web applications in some projects which follow this approach. I in fact used Jersey to build the server-side RESTful APIs. UI layer is designed with HTML + Jquery (AJAX). If we are exposed our management APIs via Jaggery, we might end up writing bunch of host objects. As an alternative, we can use the framework that AmilaS is implementing to build REST APIs. Thanks, Sameera. > >>> Thanks, >>> Sameera. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Sameera. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So in that case the worker contains the runtime container logic plus >>>>>>> a management API (running at a separate port etc. and enabled by >>>>>>> request). >>>>>>> The management node contains an admin app that talks to the worker nodes >>>>>>> via the API and other means (such as ADC). Right? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +1 as long as we can still ship a multi-profile distro by default >>>>>>> where all of this is in one JVM and then you give the personalty at boot >>>>>>> time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sanjiva. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Samisa Abeysinghe <[email protected] >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> With the worker-manager concept, we no longer require FE-BE >>>>>>>>>> separation. There is no need to have FE-BE separation for the >>>>>>>>>> management >>>>>>>>>> node. So, I think we can completely do away with that concept. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But how do we separate the worker stuff from manager stuff? >>>>>>>>> Is that not >>>>>>>>> Manger == FE + BE >>>>>>>>> Worker == BE >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No, FE is the front end of the management admin client. BE is the >>>>>>>> management service/API. Worker provides the runtime to run services, >>>>>>>> apps, >>>>>>>> processes, mediation etc. We have made the mistake of calling this >>>>>>>> runtime >>>>>>>> as BE as well. Management nodes will not ideally require this runtime, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> we may need to have some parts of it. e.g. validating the Synapse >>>>>>>> config >>>>>>>> will require Synapse to be in the management node. We will never have a >>>>>>>> case where a FE talks to a BE in a worker node. When it comes to the >>>>>>>> mgt >>>>>>>> node, there is no need for separating the FE & BE. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What do you guys think? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>** >>>>>>>>>> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 >>>>>>>>>> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* >>>>>>>>>> twitter: >>>>>>>>>> **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* >>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Samisa... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe >>>>>>>>> VP Engineering >>>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc. >>>>>>>>> http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>> http://wso2.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>** >>>>>>>> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 >>>>>>>> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* >>>>>>>> twitter: >>>>>>>> **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Dev mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> http://wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. >>>>>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com/ >>>>>>> email: [email protected]; phone: +94 11 763 9614; cell: +94 77 787 >>>>>>> 6880 | +1 650 265 8311 >>>>>>> blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>** >>>>>> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 >>>>>> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* >>>>>> twitter: >>>>>> **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>> * >>>>>> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* >>>>>> * >>>>>> * >>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sameera Jayasoma >>>>> Senior Technical Lead >>>>> >>>>> WSO2, Inc. (http://wso2.com) >>>>> email: [email protected] >>>>> blog: http://sameera.adahas.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>** >>>> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 >>>> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* >>>> twitter: >>>> **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>> * >>>> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* >>>> * >>>> * >>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Dev mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sameera Jayasoma >>> Senior Technical Lead >>> >>> WSO2, Inc. (http://wso2.com) >>> email: [email protected] >>> blog: http://sameera.adahas.org >>> >>> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> *Afkham Azeez* >> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >> * <http://www.apache.org/>** >> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 >> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* >> twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >> * >> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* >> * >> * >> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >> > > > > -- > *Afkham Azeez* > Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > * <http://www.apache.org/>** > email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 > blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* > twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> > * > linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* > * > * > *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* > -- Sameera Jayasoma Senior Technical Lead WSO2, Inc. (http://wso2.com) email: [email protected] blog: http://sameera.adahas.org Lean . Enterprise . Middleware
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