On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Sameera Jayasoma <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 12:12 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Sameera Jayasoma <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> See my comments inline. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:49 PM, Sameera Jayasoma >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Azeez, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 5:49 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Azeez don't we need the management API in worker nodes? I assume >>>>>>>> the answer is yes .. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you look at the current worker-manager separated setup, we don't >>>>>>> have a single instance where the management node BE or FE calls into the >>>>>>> worker node BE. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree that worker nodes do not require administrative services. But >>>>>> for Management node, we need to maintain the BE/FE separation. I.e we >>>>>> need >>>>>> to keep the administration services as its. This would user to write >>>>>> their >>>>>> own UI layer to interact with our server. This exactly what AppFactory is >>>>>> doing right? In some of the project I've worked, we developed completely >>>>>> different UI to interact with Mgt nodes. So IMV, we still need that BE >>>>>> services. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> FE-BE separation means from the UI components we make service calls to >>>>> the BE components. What we need is management APIs. Our UI can simply use >>>>> these management APIs. We don't need FE-BE separation. External apps can >>>>> also call these management APIs. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Okay. so anyway we need to expose our management APIs as service >>>> right?. >>>> >>>> I was under the impression that FE-BE separation means a clear >>>> separation of UI layer from the BE layer. some how we ended up connecting >>>> FE layer to BE layer via web services communication. But we tried to >>>> connect FE to BE via Java calls via OSGi services approach. Thats didn't >>>> work due to some security issues. >>>> >>>> Anyway still we need to clearly separate FE components from the >>>> management APIs right? But we need to figure out an efficient and secure >>>> way to connect the FE to BE. >>>> >>> >>> I guess where I am getting at is, we have RESTful APIs, which will be >>> called by code running in the Web Browser. Yes, I am suggesting that we go >>> back to the old AJAX based UI model we had, but without the pain of XSLT >>> (in the old model). >>> >>> FE = jquery + HTML+ (Jaggery?) >>> BE= RESTful APIs (Jaggery?) >>> >>> FE <--- JSON --> BE >>> >> >> Does this make sense? This is not FE-BE separation. FE-BE separation >> meant that the FE runs on one JVM & BE runs on another. My argument is that >> with the management-worker node concept, we don't need that anymore. Nobody >> will run the FE on a separate JVM. >> > > Wonderful!!! Big +1 from me. > > I like this approach. I wrote couple of web applications in some projects > which follow this approach. I in fact used Jersey to build the server-side > RESTful APIs. UI layer is designed with HTML + Jquery (AJAX). > > If we are exposed our management APIs via Jaggery, we might end up writing > bunch of host objects. As an alternative, we can use the framework that > AmilaS is implementing to build REST APIs. > Nope Sameera, Hostobject concept is being deprecated. So, you won't need to write any hostobject, rather directly use whatever the Java libs available[1] and get it done. [1] https://github.com/wso2/jaggery/blob/master/modules/carbon/scripts/osgi.js [2] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Scripting_Java > > Thanks, > Sameera. > > > >> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Sameera. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Sameera. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So in that case the worker contains the runtime container logic >>>>>>>> plus a management API (running at a separate port etc. and enabled by >>>>>>>> request). The management node contains an admin app that talks to the >>>>>>>> worker nodes via the API and other means (such as ADC). Right? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> +1 as long as we can still ship a multi-profile distro by default >>>>>>>> where all of this is in one JVM and then you give the personalty at >>>>>>>> boot >>>>>>>> time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sanjiva. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 6:03 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Samisa Abeysinghe < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> With the worker-manager concept, we no longer require FE-BE >>>>>>>>>>> separation. There is no need to have FE-BE separation for the >>>>>>>>>>> management >>>>>>>>>>> node. So, I think we can completely do away with that concept. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But how do we separate the worker stuff from manager stuff? >>>>>>>>>> Is that not >>>>>>>>>> Manger == FE + BE >>>>>>>>>> Worker == BE >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No, FE is the front end of the management admin client. BE is the >>>>>>>>> management service/API. Worker provides the runtime to run services, >>>>>>>>> apps, >>>>>>>>> processes, mediation etc. We have made the mistake of calling this >>>>>>>>> runtime >>>>>>>>> as BE as well. Management nodes will not ideally require this >>>>>>>>> runtime, but >>>>>>>>> we may need to have some parts of it. e.g. validating the Synapse >>>>>>>>> config >>>>>>>>> will require Synapse to be in the management node. We will never have >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> case where a FE talks to a BE in a worker node. When it comes to the >>>>>>>>> mgt >>>>>>>>> node, there is no need for separating the FE & BE. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What do you guys think? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>>>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>>>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>** >>>>>>>>>>> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 >>>>>>>>>>> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* >>>>>>>>>>> twitter: >>>>>>>>>>> **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>>> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* >>>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>> Samisa... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe >>>>>>>>>> VP Engineering >>>>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc. >>>>>>>>>> http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>>> http://wso2.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>** >>>>>>>>> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 >>>>>>>>> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* >>>>>>>>> twitter: >>>>>>>>> **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* >>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> http://wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. >>>>>>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com/ >>>>>>>> email: [email protected]; phone: +94 11 763 9614; cell: +94 77 787 >>>>>>>> 6880 | +1 650 265 8311 >>>>>>>> blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>** >>>>>>> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 >>>>>>> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* >>>>>>> twitter: >>>>>>> **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sameera Jayasoma >>>>>> Senior Technical Lead >>>>>> >>>>>> WSO2, Inc. (http://wso2.com) >>>>>> email: [email protected] >>>>>> blog: http://sameera.adahas.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>** >>>>> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 >>>>> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* >>>>> twitter: >>>>> **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>> * >>>>> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* >>>>> * >>>>> * >>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Dev mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sameera Jayasoma >>>> Senior Technical Lead >>>> >>>> WSO2, Inc. (http://wso2.com) >>>> email: [email protected] >>>> blog: http://sameera.adahas.org >>>> >>>> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *Afkham Azeez* >>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>> * <http://www.apache.org/>** >>> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 >>> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* >>> twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>> * >>> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* >>> * >>> * >>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> *Afkham Azeez* >> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >> * <http://www.apache.org/>** >> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 >> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* >> twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >> * >> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* >> * >> * >> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >> > > > > -- > Sameera Jayasoma > Senior Technical Lead > > WSO2, Inc. (http://wso2.com) > email: [email protected] > blog: http://sameera.adahas.org > > Lean . Enterprise . Middleware > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture > > -- *Ruchira Wageesha Senior Software Engineer & Member, Management Committee, Development Technologies* *WSO2 Inc. - lean . enterprise . middleware | wso2.com* * email: [email protected], blog: ruchirawageesha.blogspot.com, mobile: +94 77 5493444*
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