On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 9:23 PM Jóhann B. Guðmundsson <johan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2.7.2020 01:06, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 9:03 PM Jóhann B. Guðmundsson <johan...@gmail.com> 
> > wrote:
> >> On 1.7.2020 23:28, Neal Gompa wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 7:19 PM Björn Persson <Bjorn@rombobjörn.se> wrote:
> >>>> Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
> >>>>> More user friendly than Grub ( has lilo like interface easier to change
> >>>>> kernel entry, which goes nicely with the default editor change )
> >>>> This made me go "What?!". I used Lilo back in the day. Its user
> >>>> interface was nothing but a prompt. You had to know what to type or
> >>>> you'd be stuck.
> >>>>
> >>>> Information for others like me who haven't seen Lilo since Grub came
> >>>> along: Apparently development of Lilo continued until just five years
> >>>> ago, and it grew a menu at some point. I guess that menu is the image
> >>>> of user-friendliness that Johann was trying to invoke.
> >>>>
> >>> If I ever wanted to switch to another boot manager, I'd seriously like
> >>> us to consider rEFInd: https://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/
> >>>
> >>> It's a very nice boot manager that looks good and doesn't suck. And
> >>> purportedly is somewhat (if not fully) compatible with bls.
> >>>
> >>> sd-boot is too barebones and unfriendly to use, which makes sense
> >>> since it was designed for non-interactive machines and not humans to
> >>> use.
> >> If there is this general feel that sd-boots configuration syntax is much
> >> harder to read and the ability of not having to run additional command
> >> once the file has been edited or the ability to be able to easily
> >> maintain and manage multiple kernels or multiple operating systems due
> >> those being a drop-in configuration text files, is considered being too
> >> bare bone and *less* user-friendly than grub, then obviously me creating
> >> a change proposal based on what Javier suggested along with other
> >> cleanups to provide as best user experience as can be had with sd-boot
> >> would be doing the distribution a great disservice would it not?
> >>
> > Oh, I don't care about the configuration syntax. That part would be
> > the same across grub, refind, and sd-boot anyway.
> >
> > The user-interactive portion of sd-boot is *awful*. I know our GRUB
> > looks ugly by default these days too, but it doesn't have to be, and
> > most distros actually do make it look semi-decent.
> >
> > But alas, nobody cares about making that part look nice, because they
> > hope people don't have to go there at all. But even Windows makes
> > their boot manager not look ugly and relatively easy to navigate. And
> > obviously Apple has done this forever with macOS.
> >
> > I honestly don't get why everyone is okay with butt-ugly and 
> > user-unfriendly UX.
> Because the end user should never find himself in the boot manager to
> begin with that's why no boot manager invest any time in being "pretty".
> The end user should find himself ending up in some form of shiny nice
> user friendly rescue environment that helps him troubleshoot his problem
> would you agree?

I would, except, we can't have that either, because nobody cares to
make that either.

In the Windows and macOS world, these two things are paramount and
they're combined with a more solid boot manager experience. We have
none of that on the Linux side because all the incentives are wrong in
the Linux world: we're driven exclusively by people who know what
they're doing and don't like change.

We have less of this problem in Fedora, but all the *money* in Linux
is pushed for *not changing*, so that makes life very difficult. The
server world uses automation and APIs as a substitute for making good
user experiences. And it shows.

That's why we get more dumb services further stratifying the landscape
of interfaces needed to do something meaningful rather than actually
*changing* things to be better.

That's why GUI tools keep getting retired for complex web applications.

That's why we can't have nice things. Because nobody with power cares enough.

真実はいつも一つ!/ Always, there's only one truth!
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