On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 1:20:18 PM MST Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
> sd-boot is already installed on end users system, is light weight 
> compared to Grub ( sd-boot only supports uefi,smaller code size, easier 
> to maintain ).

Sure, gummiboot is more lightweight than GRUB. It also doesn't support a lot 
of the features that GRUB does, such as full disk encryption (with stub in 

> It already integrates with the service management framework (systemd).

That's one of the problems with it. What does an init system have to do with 
the bootloader?

> More user friendly than Grub ( has lilo like interface easier to change 
> kernel entry, which goes nicely with the default editor change )

I'm pretty sure GRUB has a much more user friendly interface than systemd-
boot.. Additionally, you can even drop to a cmdline if needed, in GRUB.

> Gnome related changes such as Hans is proposing might be easier to 
> integrate for the desktop team ( less work, problem being fixed where it 
> arguably should be as opposed to systemd,grub and gnome for his feature 
> to work and more future proof work for the desktop team).

GNOME related changes.. to a bootloader? Sorry, I haven't heard of any of 
those. Can you point me to a thread or page describing that kind of thing? 
That sounds a bit.. odd, to say the least.

Regardless, if that's going to be a thing, it'd be perfectly fine, in my 
opinion, for Workstation to use systemd-boot on UEFI by default, and GRUB only 
on BIOS boot systems, while the rest of Fedora continues to use the more 
powerful bootloader.

> Could help further adapt UEFI and secure boot which the industry is 
> moving towards which helps keep Fedora moving along with it.

GRUB2 supports UEFI, quite well in fact.

> Grub discourages users who have tried sd-boot from coming/returning to 
> Fedora [1].

How's that? If you mean that users that have used GRUB prefer it over systemd-
boot, I'd be inclined to agree, but I don't see how it'd prevent people from 
returning to Fedora.

> Bottom line I think this will be a good move for the distribution and a 
> good time to start looking into and make that move.

I have to disagree. The more systemd bloat that gets thrown into the mix, the 
more concerned I become with this path. We already have a powerful and mature 
project in GRUB2, which supports UEFI well, and is known to be stable.

John M. Harris, Jr.

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