On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Fernando Herrera wrote: >>So it's OK for Linux kernel developers to object to having a bug tracking >>system imposed on them but not OK for XFree86 developers? If that's >>what you're telling me, then I have nothing more to say on this topic.
In that context alone, I would agree with you, however... > No, Maybe I have explained myself wrongly. Linux kernel >is developed in a very personal way, the Linus way. It's his >project, and he can do what he wants. That isn't really an argument to support your case that XFree86 should use a bug tracker. I'd say it is an argument against it. XFree86 project was of course started by David, and a few others, so one could say "XFree86 is developed in a very personal way, the David way. It's his project, and he can do what he wants." just as easily as what you've said above. On that alone, I'd even have to agree with it, and I'd probably be insulted if I were David. I completely agree that a bug tracker would be a great help to the XFree86 project, and I also believe that some people who may not think so, would change that viewpoint over time, as long as they can be shown that THEY benefit from it, and not just other people. In order to convince someone that a bug tracker is a useful thing, it is totally useless to sprout off about all of the good things bug trackers can do, that you think is good for YOU of for someone else, or some other project (or vendor or whatever). What is needed, is to listen to what THEY are saying, and to see why THEY do not want to use a bug tracker. If they have reservations about a bug tracking system, fears, or whatever - the only way to change their mind, is to show them nicely how their concerns can be properly met by your proposed solution. Otherwise people are talking past each other, and nothing changes. That isn't really co-operating or collaborating, but rather 2 people or 2 groups of people with contrarian viewpoints, each pushing their own viewpoint and ignoring the other's viewpoint. That wont work. >What many people is proposing is to adopt a good bug tracking >system for XFree86 development. From experience in other >projects, everyone can see that its adoption is good for the >global project quality. I certainly agree there, and I don't think that is the problem that needs to be solved. What needs to be done, is to show the developers that a bug tracker is not going to cause the problems they fear. If they can be shown that a bug tracker wont get in their way, then they are more likely to be more open minded to the idea of using it. I think they fear it will be a huge bug dumping ground where various users will dump bugs one after the other, and that distribution vendors will also dump all their bug reports there, and then point at XFree86.org and say "here, fix it". That is a valid fear, and can not be ignored by all of us open source developers whom think a bug tracker would be good for XFree86. Remember, we are saying bugzilla would be good *for XFree86* and also *for XFree86.org*. We _HAVE_ to show that that is TRUE *first* or else why would anyone want to listen? I don't think it is at all unreasonable to have to provide some proof of the concept to those who doubt us. >So we have bugzilla. I'm only proposing XFree86 core developers >to try it. Try to see how it can be usefull. If finally XFree86 >Team doesn't like it, we can try to find another tool, or we can >try to develop it. Again, making such a request to the XFree86.org developers is only ignoring the things they've brought forth against the bug tracker. As above >I know that using a new tool is always difficult, but please, >give it a chance! Begging doesn't work either, and probably would just be found as annoying. I appreciate you agree that a bug tracker is needed, but please make sure that it isn't a one sided argument. Making a suggestion of an idea that will benefit a project, and putting forth advantages of doing so, which only help you, but without trying to provide answers to the problems the people ask about that are against, or leaning towards being against the idea, doesn't help win their support. Let's not be one sided. -- Mike A. Harris _______________________________________________ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
