Dnia 2009-07-01, śro o godzinie 13:08 +0200, David McLeod pisze:
> Ok this is a long one but... hopefully a good one :)
My turn
--8<--
> However, someone needs to be nominated to organise all 'tech talk'
> going on at the moment and keep a handle on it. I am keeping and eye
> on how this is being done as I want to see if there is a good solid
> process to help developers get into doing things on our project rather
> than bashing their thoughts into a mailing list :).
Volunteers?
--8<--
> 1. LiveTV
> The 'Player'
> 2. Programme Guide (EPG)
> 'List' Current or Upcoming Shows (by time/date)
> Show Summary/Synopsis
> 3. Recordings
> List of (by date)
> 4. Schedule
> List of (by date)
> 5. Settings
>
> 1. At a basic level, LiveTV should allow for instant recording and
> pausing of a TV show with the ability to skip through other channels
> included. LiveTV is a must for two reasons. Firstly it is instant
> media gratification which is actually a consistent experience across
> Moovida so lets keep with it. The value of the plugin and what it does
> can be seen immediately, even by low level users. Secondly, it is an
> absolute must for the sport fanatic who needs to watch it 'now &
> live'. This 'sub-section' will not do anything fancy at this stage
> like Picture in Picture for example. Lets keep it simple, plus our
> player needs a complete rewrite anyway so I would be scared to add too
> much to it beyond the basics.
The sport fanatic will still have some seconds delay as with every PVR.
Getting rid 3-5s delay isn't worth having a separate workflow for
streaming live tv from the backend.
> 2. Programme Guide (or EPG...EPG is kind of a nerdy acronym), this
> provides valuable information for the user in terms of finding what is
> on now...and what is on in the future. There are two different kinds
> of EPG layouts, one is very complex with a longer timeline to view
> (Full Programme Guide), and one is very simple, easier to use and
> access but the timeline is very short and limiting (Now & Next
> Guide).
Now & Next FTW!! :]
--8<--
> QUESTIONS / WANTS / NEEDS
>
> - An absolute necessity is finding a solid online EPG that we can
> utilize and it should provide not only good metadata (e.g. show
> summary/synopsis) with airtime but also content type (e.g. Feature
> Film or Sporting Event). Keep in mind we have Genres coming for both
> Movies & TV Shows sections so, genre metadata would also be useful.
I think there's no point in bringing open doors down. XMLTV is a set
standard for EPG data and should stay this way. There isn't (and
probably never will be) one place to get EPG data for all TV channels
there are in the world.
> - TV station logos and artwork. Free to use artwork and obtaining that
> artwork neatly needs to be provided (possibly but we can work around
> it but it wont be as nice visually). If we deem it necessary to build
> this repository ourselves, Fluendo can host and setup a database and
> community structure for uploading this artwork for the plugin to use.
> Artwork needs to be provided in at least a 500px square size..anything
> smaller and we cant pull it off as the image size/quality is too low
> and will look like 'crepe').
XMLTV has facilities to do that, too, with the added caveat that you
won't have any control over format / quality. Usually these are standard
station logos as they appear on TV or websites. Having a central
repository would definitely help community effort. What do you have in
mind 'station artwork'?
> - TV Show artwork, episode thumbnails or relevant artwork. Needed for
> the 'information screens' where artwork appears large. I know from
> experience (but also admit I am out of touch with this area) ...that
> getting thumbnails or artwork for for every show or any item in the
> EPG is not going to be possible. Consider that we have resources to
> use such as Amazon, TVDB and TheMovieDB as well as Google to do some
> clever things.
I think all data that is found on external sources known to be good -
TheTVDB, TheMovieDB etc. should be integrated whenever possible.
> - Multiple Tuner Card issues. Again, this has a tendency to go
> seriously wrong from a UX perspective and another one that can go up
> its own 'wazoo' and spoil the simplicity of the experience. Utilize
> additional tuner cards automatically and do not let the user have to
> worry about the details of how it works. 1 tuner card should always be
> free for LiveTV and should in my non-techy mind always be free for
> this use (else we dilute that experience and cause user
> confusion...e.g. "What? I could pause live shows before?"). Additional
> tuner cards, are used to help record multiple items that the user
> schedules at the same time. So, user has three tuner cards? great two
> shows next wednesday both on at 4pm can be recorded at the same time
> using 2 of their 3 tuner cards. The other tuner card is taken and
> exclusively used for LiveTV as mentioned previously.
Not a chance ;) You can't 'reserve' a tuner - that would simply be a
waste. I think a solution would be to give the user a choice when there
are no free tuners available, preferably informing them when will the
recoring end. You could then either force the recording to stop and
start watching TV or allow the recording to finish. The Now & Next EPG
could be smart enough to have a switch 'only show available content'
that would only show things you can watch without disrupting the
recording schedule. This would include all channels on currently locked
multiplexes.
I'm not sure if ATSC supports that but all flavors of DVB do - with
every added tuner even if all of them are busy you get much lower
possibility of clashes, 'cause one multiplex means several channels
available. In theory if your provider broadcasts on X multiplexes you
could record everything with just X tuners.
There's a third option when the scheduler gets cleverer - the scheduler
could check if the currently recording show is on at a later date and
reschedule it if that's what the user wants.
> - The greatest headache of all of this PVR thing is how to deal with
> time/schedule conflicts and how to recognise them. Again, keeping it
> simple. If the user has a clash in their schedule and we can't record
> the show they want due to that clash... we need to be able to tell
> them "woops - sorry, cant do that as there is a schedule clash with
> Show 'X'". Nothing more complicated than that right?
That's only if the scheduler is stoopid ;) I agree with Kevin that the
scheduler Myth has is a powerful beast - on the other hand, it's a bit
bloated. I think even the most basic scheduler should use content, not
channel+time to schedule recordings. Just as in LiveTV - you rarely want
to record channel X from Y to Z. You want show A to be recorded. The
scheduler should then find the show and try to record as soon as
possible with as much efficiency in regard of tuners as possible (if two
shows are to be recorded at the same time from the same multiplex - only
use one tuner). And now there's a question - if a show is available to
be recorded today and then again tomorrow, but recording it today would
use all available tuners while tomorrow it would not - should it record
today or tomorrow? Allowing the user to reschedule a recording with one
click would solve this in my opinion ("Record this later, I want to
watch TV" is the exact phrase used in MythTV. This has one flaw, though
- it doesn't check if it actually will be available for recording ;)).
> - More of a question, is it best if the EPG guide was downloaded and
> stored locally on the users HD and was updated once a day rather than
> accessing it on an outside server every time? Artwork thumbnails,
> station logos etc. is maybe 'on the cloud'? Or again, if not too
> 'heavy' cached or stored locally.
Stored locally. Again - XMLTV is the standard for that and it works
well. 2 weeks of EPG data for me is about 12MBs. And you need all of
that to schedule recordings properly. I think artwork and icons should
be stored locally, too - there's no need to have internet on for
watching TV.
> - This is more of a general note: Make sure the user when watching
> LiveTV cannot record the show if it is already in their schedule and
> recording anyway. Basically what I am saying is, don't allow a show to
> somehow be recorded twice or duplicated.
+1, but you need to be sure it's a duplicate. It's less harm to
duplicate than to miss a recording because there was something wrong in
the EPG.
--8<--
> Above is just a quick overview of what happens in Moovida currently.
> Now, one feature that is coming and is missing, is the ability to put
> a plugin directly into the Main Menu (only interested in YouTube,
> Jamendo & Grooveshark?...thats all you want on the Main Menu?...no
> problem).
>
> However, some plugins may not have this ability to be added to the
> Main Menu... for instance (this is relevant to my final point below),
> some plugins might not do anything more than add a new option for an
> Artist inside the music section or a button in the player. For
> instance, maybe in the more options screen for an artist, a plugin is
> created that allows the user to see all pictures of the band via
> Last.FM using their API. No 'UI' for that really...and no 'portal'
> like YouTube, or the other plugins currently.
Yeah I thought once about allowing the user to make up his menu
completely would be nice. A 'Design your menu' option could be added in
the settings where you'd be allowed to get virtually any action (be it
play an album, slideshow or youtube video) that is available in the ui
and put it wherever you want.
--8<--
> Finally, I actually get to my point (haha!): This plugin that we
> create for PVR, I am feeling that it actually does two things to 'play
> nice' in Moovida:
>
> 1. This PVR plugin exists 'on its own'. It has its own 'portal' with a
> hierarchy and a dedicated UI. It should appear in Plugins > Library
> when it is downloaded. (so obviously it isn't 'Internet Media' so
> technically it will be the first plugin to not appear there).
>
> 2. The plugin by default adds the hierarchy described earlier to the
> current TV Shows section in Moovida currently. The user of course can
> turn this default off in the plugins individual settings to stop this
> behaviour. Doing so means the only way to access and use our PVR
> plugin is via, Plugins > Library when that default setting is turned
> off.
+1
--
Michał Sawicz <[email protected]>
