Thanks for the explanation. Does it seem wrong to anyone else here with better legal understanding than me that the fixtures list is copyrightable? I can't put my finger on why it seems wrong to me, but it does.
Maybe it's that the collection of word + position facts that make up a book constitute the entire meaningful definition of the book, at least in relation to its commercial value to its author. However, the collection of location + date facts that make up a fixtures list is actually a fairly minor part of the overall enterprise that is the Premiership -- i.e. without fans knowing when and where the matches are, there'd be nothing there of value for anyone. Actually, no, I don't think that's what it is. I can't work it out. Maybe it's not legally that I have a problem, just in terms of natural justice and fairness :-) Surely it can't really be *that* hard to come up with a fixtures schedule... it must be an algorithm of some kind. Maybe I should read the recent case and find out what extraordinary effort they reckon they put in. Seb On 18 May 2010 12:20, Mark Goodge <[email protected]> wrote: > On 18/05/2010 11:06, Seb Bacon wrote: >> >> On 18 May 2010 10:43, Mark Goodge<[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Yes, but that's not relevant in this case because, as Francis says, it >>> isn't >>> the database right which is at issue. What matters here is that the >>> fixture >>> list *copy*right belongs to the league, and copyright is still infringed >>> even if the content is obtained via one or more intermediaries. >> >> I find that quite interesting, and quite strange. If I'm going to see >> my team play next week, and I mention this fact in my blog, is that >> infringement of copyright? Or is that covered by fair use? > > That would be fair dealing, yes (the term "fair use" is USian, the UK > equivalent is "fair dealing"). > >> I find it hard to get my head around where something stops being a >> fact and starts being something else. > > It is complicated. Intellectual Property law is a mishmash of rights cobbled > together with different rules not only for different types of rights but > also for different material to which the rights pertain. > > Maybe the best way to answer your question, though, is by analogy. Consider > the following: > > It is a fact that Dan Brown has written a novel called "The Da Vinci Code". > > It is a fact that the first word of The Da Vinci Code is "Renowned". > > It is a fact that the second word of The Da Vinci Code is "curator". > > It is a fact that the third word of The Da Vinci Code is "Jacques". > > It is a fact that the fourth word of The Da Vinci Code is "Sauniere". > > It is a fact that the fifth word of The Da Vinci Code is "staggered". > > Now, I could go on like that for a very long time[1]. Individually, any of > these statements is fine - a single word extract is fair dealing by any > definition. A group of them - a complete sentence, or even a paragraph or > two - is fine as well. But if I carried on until I'd quoted every word in > the book, that would be infringement of copyright. Somewhere between a few > sentences and the totality of the book is where fair dealing stops and > infringement starts (in practice, that's generally around two or three > paragraphs, but that's a matter for case law rather than being defined by > statute). > > The same applies to football fixtures. It's OK to say that Melchester Rovers > are at home to Barnstoneworth this Saturday. It's OK to say that Harchester > United are away to Walford Town on Sunday. It's OK to say that Fulchester > United have a midweek fixture against Earls Park FC on Wednesday. But to > reproduce the entire season's fixture list, or even a significant chunk of > it, would be an infringement of the FPL's copyright. > > [1] Actually, I couldn't, as I don't have a copy of the book - I just > googled the first line. > > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list [email protected] > Archive, settings, or unsubscribe: > https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/listinfo/developers-public > -- skype: seb.bacon mobile: 07790 939224 land: 020 8123 9473 _______________________________________________ Mailing list [email protected] Archive, settings, or unsubscribe: https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/mailman/listinfo/developers-public
