Re: Friday 14 May, 10:00: protest against the european patent laws

[Willem Voogd]

Dear all,

does somebody maybe have a link to the petition that is to be handed 
out? I know i have already signed several of those, but I don't know if 
one of them is the one that is to be handed over...

It would be silly to be part of the protesters that are handing over the 
petition, while my name isn't on it :)

TIA

Willem

Peter Reitsma wrote:

Hi Jo,

Also I think this law proposal is bad for all of the reasons that you
outline, no need to argue about that. 

But, as I understand it, laws similar to the ones proposed in europe are
in place in the US for quite some time now. Now, you are probably right
claiming that things in the US are a lot worse on this subject than in
Europe. Still I do not see the US significantly lagging behind in
software innovation nor do I see open source initiatives being choked
there on a big scale by legislative action. Neither do I believe that
small software companies stopped writing innovative software anymore in
the US due to this regulations.
It is just that I think that there will still be life for us even if
these laws are passed. 

Of course, I understand that downplaying the fear and doomsday scenario
at this moment is not in the
best interest in the fight against these regulations. So, I will refrain
from it from now on and support any action against the regulations.
Rgrds> Peter

 

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Jo Lahaye | 
MMBase Foundation
Verzonden: woensdag 12 mei 2004 22:33
Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Onderwerp: RE: Friday 14 May, 10:00: protest against the 
european patent laws

Good evening all,
I'm afraid Peter, that we will see more suing in the coming 
years. And "small" (Dutch / European) companies (say <5000) 
will never be able to pay amounts that are by now 'regular' 
in these kind of settlements. Microsoft paying just udner 500 
million dollars for a relatively 'small' infringement just a 
few weeks ago.... The point is that the patent holders don't 
even need to sue software developers that many times. Just a 
few times will do. They will simply scare (end)users, by 
pulling them in as well! So the latter will ask the 
implementation companies to guarantee that the software 
delivered, does not brake any rule/law/regulation concerning 
copyrights and patents. Just try to imagine what will happen 
next. I'm afraid it is 'apocalyptic' at least for our ict-industry.

I've been discussing these issues with many 'small' companies 
and they are all (including your CEO) convinced that they can 
'never, ever' give such a guarantee to a user (for 100%). And 
that they will also never be able to pay for an insurance 
against this risk. Because no one can even estimate the risks 
involved.

There is much more to say about the subject, and I already 
did (article Automatiseringsgids, many contacts with 
politicians on the issue, etc.). Please don't underestimate 
the impact this regulation will have.

The Dutch policy on the issue is not yet decided. Every 
signal will help. So I support any action in this respect. 
Kind regards, Jo.

MMBase Foundation
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
T: +31 (0)35 6288088
M: +31 (0)6 53292887
=====================
MMEvent4, TU Delft 9 juni
zie: www.mmbase.org
   

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Daniel Ockeloen
Sent: woensdag 12 mei 2004 15:15
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Friday 14 May, 10:00: protest against the 
     

european patent
   

laws



On May 12, 2004, at 2:55 PM, Peter Reitsma wrote:

     

Hi,

I think that this law, if it is accepted, will proof to be totably 
unhandable for any justice system. The proceedings of the 
       

SCO vs. IMB 
   

case have proven how complex these cases can become and 
       

how much in 
   

debth knowledge and research efforts are required by the law 
enforcers. The sheer amount of opportunities to sue any party over 
breaches of any software patent law will be overwhelming 
       

and turn out 
   

to be impossible to persecute on a big scale.

I do not think any clever lawmaker should want to burden 
       

the already 
   

overloaded justice systems anymore with this lawmaking. In 
       

case they 
   

will, they will be ending up withdrawing it eventually or worse: 
'gedogen'.

This is of course just another argument against this law 
       

but also a 
   

reason to downplay the somehwat apocalyptic fears that 
       

occasionally 
   

arise around this topic.

Anyway, lets hope for, and actively pursue a sound decision by the 
european decision makers.

Rgrds> Peter

       

We all know they won't do alot against many (just like with music for
example) but do we who work on these opensource projects need a axe 
over our heads, just knowing that (like sco) we can be sued by all 
these companies making silly claims ?.  Do i as a programmer want to 
take that risk ? can i afford it ?

Most programmers who work in opensource project do that 
     

partly to share 
   

and better our world what a nice signal this will send for future 
reference, We are 'allowed' by the powers that be to create 
     

technical 
   

freespeech (the right to speak in the  modern age) as long as some 
weird ass company doesn't sue us over what we all agree are 99.99% 
silly claims.

At what point do we get upset ?

Daniel.