Hrmm...
Perhaps I am under a mistaken impression of how easy a KSK page is to forge? I recall under .5, it was rather do-able.

Even if they aren't forge-able (while I'll take your word for), aren't they still floodable?
-Colin


On Jun 20, 2006, at 3:35 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The difference is, if it worked properly, it would allow you to give
a "Short name" on a business card/Note to conspirators.

Example:

John Doe
VOIP: 555-555-1212
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Freenet URL:     Alice\MySecretPage\

What about this?

John Doe
VOIP: 555-555-1212
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Freenet URL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Where the KSK is just a meta-redirect to an [EMAIL PROTECTED]/-1/ freesite. Done and I'm sure nobody I don't even know messes with the index.

Maybe KSKs are not *that* secure as SSK/USK are, but neither the index is. Whereas KSKs can only by compromized by a network split or bad routing (and having to know the KSK-key in forehand to insert bogus data to), the index can be manipulated *at will* as it's under the control of a single person/org, that can be forced by The Guys to
tamper the index.
As 0.7 doesn't have a HTL-field anymore, modifying KSKs is even more difficult. On an insert collision, the valid KSK is returned along all the request chain, which distributes the original key even more (if it goes into the datastore). The chain is now longer as with 0.5, and with 0.5 the attacker could set a HTL of 2 or 3, which "infects" nearby nodes without collision.




On Jun 19, 2006, at 10:36 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote:

This seems increasingly similar to searching ... isn't DNS just
another
search/labelling system? Certainly splitting up indexes by letters,
and
even inheriting stuff from other indexes, is very close technically to
the mechanisms we will have to provide for searches.

Why not just use searches? I ran into just this debate in a bug on
mozilla once; the consensus seemed to be that people shouldn't be
guessing URLs, they should just use Google; hence the addition of the
Google Bar to firefox.

On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 06:09:56AM -0400, Colin Davis wrote:

I like the idea. I had been pondering something very similar for
Freemail to
combat the problem that I can't give my Freemail address to someone
in the
pub. Aside from a business card almost as large as the table
itself, it would
also require a lot of patience from the poor person that's got to
type it in.


Absolutely. There's a lot of uses for a system like this- Unlike a
KSK, it's signed & distributed, so it's under your control, but it's
still available for everyone.
Since anyone can publish a name page, it's democratic.

* Allow Bob to subscribe to Alice's page, and include it as part
of his.

The problem being that a tree structure like this can make the
lookup time
very large very fast, since it can very quickly have a lot of
indexes to
check, each of which is not that quick.


That's true, but keep in mind- You can copy their entries to a static
list, once you access them. Ie, use cron to have FCP access their
lists once per 12 hours, and copy them to your own list. Then it's
essentially a giant hosts.txt file..

For example-

Alice publishes the following list.
Greatsite -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ReallyGreatSite -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
GreatPic.jpg  -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Bob creates his own list:
BobIsCool -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bob'sSuperFriend -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Bob then subscribes to Alice's list.
His client Creates a new master list, which looks like-

Bob/BobIsCool -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bob/Bob'sSuperFriend -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alice/Greatsite -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alice/ReallyGreatSite -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Alice/GreatPic.jpg  -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]


At that point, going to a URL is just a matter of looking up the name
in a flatfile. Yes, it could be broken up/arranged in a Database,
etc.. But conceptually, think of it as one file that is added to.

If Chris publishes a list
UBERSITE -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]


And he subscribes to Alice, he'd then have hers and his, but not
Bob's.
If he subscribed to Bob's, he'd have him, Bob, and Alice.

Etc.


One problem I can see is that if I give one of mates one of these
URLs, will
he then get very confused when his node tells him it doesn't know
about it,
since he doesn't subscribe to the right names list?

While that's true, as-written it works well in a darknet- Your
friends can add your list ;)
In a wider opennet, you'd probably have someone like Yahoo publishing
a master list, which most people subscribed to, either directly, or
through someone who subscribed to it.


That can be solved by
just having a default one that will suffice for 99% of people
though, and
potentially build in some kind of revocation mechanism.

IIRC, there is already a revocation method-
If you change a key to be blank, the next time people sync against
it, the key is removed from your list.

I'm just throwing some ideas around really, use whatever you
will. :) Either
way, I do like the idea.


Dave



I think this is a much better idea.

The idea, as I understand it, lets a user set up a USK page, to
which
he posts a list of freenet links. This is somewhat similar to the
multitude of Freenet indexes that already exist ;)

In this USK page, A user could specify "Friendly Names", similar to
DNS, or a KSK.

InterestingSite -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
GreatPic -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]


A user can then "Subscribe" to another users name's list- So for
example, if Alice published this page, I could subscribe to his
pages, and access any of her links, via her username, and the short
name he gave it-
        For example-        Alice/InterestingSite

If Bob were to do the same thing, I could access Bob/ SuperCoolSite,
which would link me to things that he thinks are interesting.



You, as a user, can subscribe to as many of these indexes as you
want, by telling your client to know about both USK index pages.





The most interesting part is yet to be written. I'm still
talking to
Aum about how best to do it, but I'd welcome suggestions.

* Allow Bob to subscribe to Alice's page, and include it as part
of his.


What this does is allow a web-of-trust for DNS. Bob trusts Alice's
pages, so he tells the client to automatically copy them into his
list, under her name.
That means that by subscribing to JUST BOB, I can access BOTH Bob/
SuperCoolSite, AND Alice/InterestingSite


That means that you could subscribe to as many DNS providers as you
choose, and they all publish their lists to a global datastore.

This isn't easily implementable under the general internet, because
it doesn't have a global datastore.. It's a freenet unique
solution,
and the idea is fascinating to me.


This is a VERY exciting idea, and I'd love to see it implemented
more
globally. Discussion appreciated.

http://freenet.org.nz/pyfcp/fcpnames.1.html
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--
Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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