-Colin
On Jun 20, 2006, at 3:35 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> The difference is, if it worked properly, it would allow you to give
>> a "Short name" on a business card/Note to conspirators.
>>
>> Example:
>>
>> John Doe
>> VOIP: 555-555-1212
>> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Freenet URL: Alice\MySecretPage\
>
> What about this?
>
> John Doe
> VOIP: 555-555-1212
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Freenet URL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Where the KSK is just a meta-redirect to an [EMAIL PROTECTED]/-1/
> freesite. Done and I'm sure nobody I don't even know messes with
> the index.
>
> Maybe KSKs are not *that* secure as SSK/USK are, but neither the
> index is.
> Whereas KSKs can only by compromized by a network split or bad
> routing (and having to know the KSK-key in forehand to insert bogus
> data to), the index can be manipulated *at will* as it's under the
> control of a single person/org, that can be forced by The Guys to
> tamper the index.
> As 0.7 doesn't have a HTL-field anymore, modifying KSKs is even
> more difficult. On an insert collision, the valid KSK is returned
> along all the request chain, which distributes the original key
> even more (if it goes into the datastore). The chain is now longer
> as with 0.5,
> and with 0.5 the attacker could set a HTL of 2 or 3, which
> "infects" nearby nodes without collision.
>
>
>
>
>> On Jun 19, 2006, at 10:36 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
>>
>>> This seems increasingly similar to searching ... isn't DNS just
>>> another
>>> search/labelling system? Certainly splitting up indexes by letters,
>>> and
>>> even inheriting stuff from other indexes, is very close
>>> technically to
>>> the mechanisms we will have to provide for searches.
>>>
>>> Why not just use searches? I ran into just this debate in a bug on
>>> mozilla once; the consensus seemed to be that people shouldn't be
>>> guessing URLs, they should just use Google; hence the addition of
>>> the
>>> Google Bar to firefox.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 18, 2006 at 06:09:56AM -0400, Colin Davis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I like the idea. I had been pondering something very similar for
>>>>> Freemail to
>>>>> combat the problem that I can't give my Freemail address to
>>>>> someone
>>>>> in the
>>>>> pub. Aside from a business card almost as large as the table
>>>>> itself, it would
>>>>> also require a lot of patience from the poor person that's got to
>>>>> type it in.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely. There's a lot of uses for a system like this- Unlike a
>>>> KSK, it's signed & distributed, so it's under your control, but
>>>> it's
>>>> still available for everyone.
>>>> Since anyone can publish a name page, it's democratic.
>>>>
>>>>>> * Allow Bob to subscribe to Alice's page, and include it as part
>>>>>> of his.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem being that a tree structure like this can make the
>>>>> lookup time
>>>>> very large very fast, since it can very quickly have a lot of
>>>>> indexes to
>>>>> check, each of which is not that quick.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's true, but keep in mind- You can copy their entries to a
>>>> static
>>>> list, once you access them. Ie, use cron to have FCP access their
>>>> lists once per 12 hours, and copy them to your own list. Then it's
>>>> essentially a giant hosts.txt file..
>>>>
>>>> For example-
>>>>
>>>> Alice publishes the following list.
>>>> Greatsite -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> ReallyGreatSite -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> GreatPic.jpg -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob creates his own list:
>>>> BobIsCool -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> Bob'sSuperFriend -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bob then subscribes to Alice's list.
>>>> His client Creates a new master list, which looks like-
>>>>
>>>> Bob/BobIsCool -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> Bob/Bob'sSuperFriend -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> Alice/Greatsite -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> Alice/ReallyGreatSite -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> Alice/GreatPic.jpg -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At that point, going to a URL is just a matter of looking up the
>>>> name
>>>> in a flatfile. Yes, it could be broken up/arranged in a Database,
>>>> etc.. But conceptually, think of it as one file that is added to.
>>>>
>>>> If Chris publishes a list
>>>> UBERSITE -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And he subscribes to Alice, he'd then have hers and his, but not
>>>> Bob's.
>>>> If he subscribed to Bob's, he'd have him, Bob, and Alice.
>>>>
>>>> Etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> One problem I can see is that if I give one of mates one of these
>>>>> URLs, will
>>>>> he then get very confused when his node tells him it doesn't know
>>>>> about it,
>>>>> since he doesn't subscribe to the right names list?
>>>>
>>>> While that's true, as-written it works well in a darknet- Your
>>>> friends can add your list ;)
>>>> In a wider opennet, you'd probably have someone like Yahoo
>>>> publishing
>>>> a master list, which most people subscribed to, either directly, or
>>>> through someone who subscribed to it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That can be solved by
>>>>> just having a default one that will suffice for 99% of people
>>>>> though, and
>>>>> potentially build in some kind of revocation mechanism.
>>>>>
>>>> IIRC, there is already a revocation method-
>>>> If you change a key to be blank, the next time people sync against
>>>> it, the key is removed from your list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just throwing some ideas around really, use whatever you
>>>>> will. :) Either
>>>>> way, I do like the idea.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think this is a much better idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The idea, as I understand it, lets a user set up a USK page, to
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> he posts a list of freenet links. This is somewhat similar to the
>>>>>> multitude of Freenet indexes that already exist ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In this USK page, A user could specify "Friendly Names",
>>>>>> similar to
>>>>>> DNS, or a KSK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> InterestingSite -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>> GreatPic -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A user can then "Subscribe" to another users name's list- So for
>>>>>> example, if Alice published this page, I could subscribe to his
>>>>>> pages, and access any of her links, via her username, and the
>>>>>> short
>>>>>> name he gave it-
>>>>>> For example- Alice/InterestingSite
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If Bob were to do the same thing, I could access Bob/
>>>>>> SuperCoolSite,
>>>>>> which would link me to things that he thinks are interesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You, as a user, can subscribe to as many of these indexes as you
>>>>>> want, by telling your client to know about both USK index pages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The most interesting part is yet to be written. I'm still
>>>>>> talking to
>>>>>> Aum about how best to do it, but I'd welcome suggestions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Allow Bob to subscribe to Alice's page, and include it as part
>>>>>> of his.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What this does is allow a web-of-trust for DNS. Bob trusts
>>>>>> Alice's
>>>>>> pages, so he tells the client to automatically copy them into his
>>>>>> list, under her name.
>>>>>> That means that by subscribing to JUST BOB, I can access BOTH
>>>>>> Bob/
>>>>>> SuperCoolSite, AND Alice/InterestingSite
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That means that you could subscribe to as many DNS providers
>>>>>> as you
>>>>>> choose, and they all publish their lists to a global datastore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This isn't easily implementable under the general internet,
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> it doesn't have a global datastore.. It's a freenet unique
>>>>>> solution,
>>>>>> and the idea is fascinating to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a VERY exciting idea, and I'd love to see it implemented
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> globally. Discussion appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://freenet.org.nz/pyfcp/fcpnames.1.html
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>>>>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
>>> ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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