On Sun, 2014-11-16 at 18:26 +0000, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On 16/11/14 17:30, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> > On 16/11/14 16:36, Ian Clarke wrote:
> >> We're in an interesting situation. The world finally appears to really
> >> care about the things that Freenet has been about from the very beginning a
> >> decade and a half ago (most of the publicity back then viewed Freenet
> >> through the prism of Napster and copyright infringement). People finally
> >> care about anonymity, privacy, government monitoring, etc. We should be
> >> able to capitalize on this but it will take work.
> > And in the meantime every wannabe clone project gets all the funding,
> > and we don't, because we're old news. Yeah.
> >
> > You need to look at Arne's work on a funding proposal ("Freenet for
> > journalists"). IMHO to make a big difference, make some decent progress
> > towards something we could call 1.0, we need $1M+, i.e. a team of paid
> > devs for at least a year. As you mentioned earlier, Kickstarter is out -
> > it takes a lot of design resources up front, we don't have goodies to
> > give donors, and we're excluded anyway because of being a social network.
> >
> > http://127.0.0.1:8888/USK@s9sxY2cTJWHKRsTuBTkjrXW4HfzrdUlwFqft1mzV0Gs,2E4DOMYy-~zOdp8-5OQH2IcmLfey0AOIkms-73Mx2tI,AQACAAE/freenet-funding/40/
> > (Is there an open gateway at the moment???)
> >> Thoughts?
> > Well, this summer we've made significant progress, some of which has
> > been deployed:
> > - The client layer rewrite. This will be deployed soon and will have a
> > substantial positive impact on usability for serious users, as well as
> > solving a number of long term problems like big freesite uploads.
> > - The link length changes. These are already deployed and have greatly
> > improved opennet performance, doubling the average data persistence time.
> > - Xor is on the verge of solving two of the biggest
> > usability-for-real-users issues with WoT.
> >
> > I agree that we need a new UI. I don't think I'm the person to do it,
> > but it sounds like the Winterface project is making progress on this.
> >
> > Personally I think we should put some significant effort into security;
> > any tweaks we do around the edges to boost opennet performance can
> > probably be sabotaged fairly easily, and there are real enemies. That
> > means 1) making darknet easy, 2) making darknet fast, 3) solving the
> > Pitch Black attack and 4) implementing tunnels, both on opennet and
> > darknet. A good tunnel implementation could give us better anonymity
> > than Tor, at least in theory. There's lots we could do on performance
> > but little point if we're relying on an easily-sabotaged opennet model.
> >
> > We have code for transport plugins, and it's very popular among the
> > community, but it probably needs rewriting and would be a big project...
> > I'm not convinced it's worthwhile given that it provides no practical
> > benefit except for a few users with UDP blocked, and no real security
> > benefit (even with darknet, p2p networks are detectable regardless of
> > protocol).
> >
> > Sone needs some problems sorting out, making into an official plugin and
> > so on. There's lots of stuff we could do to improve performance of chat
> > apps and so on; IMHO making chat work consistently well over Freenet is
> > a long-term research project, like search. :|
> >
> > The existing fred changes, the two main WoT changes (event pushing and
> > progressive recalculation) and fixing Sone and making it official would
> > be enough for a reasonably interesting 0.8 IMHO, certainly an
> > improvement on 0.7.5; a bit better if it includes Winterface. But I have
> > no idea what the timescale is for Winterface, the WoT work or Sone.
> >
> > This is IMHO. I've been out of it really for some time; I was fairly
> > single-minded over summer. You should look at other people's roadmaps.
> > But it's worth discussing.
> Lets separate this out into another thread:
>
> I propose that we ship 0.8 with:
> - The existing client layer rewrite (the next build) and opennet
> improvements.
> - Progressive recalculation and event-pushing in WoT.
> - Winterface.
> - Sone as an official (but not bundled) plugin.
> - Any bug fixes we have time for.
>
> What needs to happen for this to be possible? What is the status of each
> of these components?
> (Of course there is a connection between this and the other issues -
> we'd like to ship 0.8 *and* milk it for donations by having a clear
> vision to propose to potential donors)We're making over and over the same mistakes... None of the components you're talking about above are in a released build (they haven't been tested in a meaningful way... and there's over 100kloc of diff!)... Don't set a feature goal, set a time-goal; at least that won't disappoint. Answer the "when do you need it for?" question, then the feature list will become obvious. From the list above, there's several critical items missing IMO: - a new OSX installer (we currently install through JNLP; that's known to be broken on anything even remotely modern) - a "better" windows installer (various bugs are in deer need of fixing) NextGen$
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