Hi Anca, The two are :
1 - An anotation module It is "just" annotation. Simple to understand. Just : As we said make it light on the interface. Do not use a separated tab for showing anotations in the botom. Just dont use a tab or put annoations in the comment tab. 2 - A quotes/anotation system integrated with comments Favorise discussion. More fluid to comment an anotation (else user will do it in the coment tab without a link to the anotation) Not an independant feature (avoid making bricks and bricks on interface that loose the user) Well, I would add a third design wich is a mix of the two. The anotation system but : - Annoatation tab content is mixed into comments tabs - Annotations are commentable (but are always the first element of the discussion) All of this makes sens, the choice is to be made on what the team feel : - The most simple for the user - The most powerfull to support user discussion about the document Makes me thinking that I'm in Paris, not far from you, and have a long time to wait between two meeting, so that we can have a voice discussion about this if you want. Have a nice day Thibaut 2010/1/19 Anca Luca <[email protected]> > Hi Thibaut, > > On 01/19/2010 03:54 AM, Thibaut DEVERAUX wrote: > > Hi, > > > > > > I think the two make sens. > > Which two? please detail a bit... > > > > > An annotation module as simple way to add personal notes on the page. > > > > A "quotes + icones on page" module as a way to annotate and discuss > > directly on the page. > > > > > > > > The only thing wich is making me wondering is the annotation tab as it > > add another way to get the information while there is already the > > icones on the page. > > > > 1/ Is this tab really usefull or just an additional feature : "best > > with but not needed" > > > > 2/ Isn't there is a risk of overloading the wiki if each feature has > > so many options ? > > > > > > > > I'd like to sugsest two reflexion start points : > > > > > > A/ Simplicity > > > > It is never a problem to add one tab, but it is a problem when each > > feature add complexity. > > > > Just imgagine someone want to add 10 features that use such tabs. Then > > he will have 14 tabs ! > > > > That why I'm pro *guetting the features a simple as possible* to avoid > > information overload when many features are activated. > > > > > > --- Start point 1 --- > > Do not use a tab for annotation by default. Just leave them on page. > > > > > > > > B/ Intergration > > > > Also that's why I prefer to intergate several functionalities in a > > single functionality when there is a usage justification. > > > > Here usages sugest that annoatation are on the same scope of use as > > comments for the readers. They may want to have it all at the same > > place to get an overveiw of people reactions. > > > > --- Start point 2 --- > > Put the anotation tab content in the comment tab content. > > The deal is to make it so that the user understand the way he interact > with it. > > > > > > > > @Anca > > > >> We could indeed push for this kind of integration with XE > > > > Not sure to understand ? > > Please dont make it a standart feature. ;-) I guess for much users is > > not really need as they have other ways to tell about text details > > than using quotes+icones or annotation system (simplely copy/past in > > comments) > > What I mean is that the annotations feature is a flexible add-on (call it > like > this if you want) which should be usable in a variety of wikis, more or > less > standard, and provide the ways to customize integration with these. If we > want > it like this, we can build the custom 'integrated with comments' flavour > for XE > (or any other wiki for that matter, but this wouldn't be our job), such as > when > an admin adds this add-on to his wiki it has it by default integrated in > the > comments thread. > > In other words, this integration is only one of the applications of the > annotation feature. > > > > > > > > > @Caty > > > >> - your display options are not very well positioned because the example > is a > >> poem, but in real life, the text will use all the area, and the right > >> aligned position will not look so smooth as it looks now, being pushed > up > >> and outside the text. > > > > Sure, I didn't looked so much in positionnement. > > > > > >> - your ideas and scenario about the similarities between annotations and > >> comment is interesting and pertinent. Anca should tell her opinion > about > >> this from an implementation point of view. > >> > >> - if the annotations were comments, then we don't need a separation of > >> terms. The icon should be comment instead of annotation and they should > >> suppose to be localized comments, not something else. And also we didn't > >> need two add actions in the tab. > > > > More preciselly is not an annotation module but a quote module that > > also makes possible to have icones on text, providing the same service > > as an annotation module. > > > > I tried a design where there is no box showing comments on pages but a > > link to the right place in comment zone. > > However I find it to be less fluid for the user. You can have a look > > on it, it may grant some ideas : > > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal/Quotesalternativelessfluidmoresimple-08.png > > > > > >> - I disagree with the explicit display of replies in the annotation > >> details/actions overlay. This representation could get very big and > block > >> all the text behind. Also if we would display it like this, then the Tab > >> would be redundant. > > > > Well, I think the replies are needed because it become a conversation. > > So that the whoole conversation is needed to understand the quote. > > > > I'm not sur having big boxes is a problem. When you open a box you are > > reading the box, then you close it. > > Indeed most of boxes will not be big. > > > > > >> - I agree with the icon from the tab that takes you to the location in > the > >> content. > > > > Think it could be added in the original design too. > > > >> - The problem with this approach is that we need to annotate not just > text, > >> but add tags and other metadata to the content. This is an argument to > have > >> another tab for annotations. > > > > Well, I'm not sure to understand it. Is is programmation matters ? > > If not I think that quoting the text is already a good thing. > > The quote button is on the page wich, in an information architecture > > way, sugsest to the user that this is the text that is to be quoted. > > What Cati means is that the annotation module is designed to potentially > use any > type of data to annotate a text with (right now indeed is only a 'comment' > but > it will be a data structure: specific fields, forms to fill in when adding, > etc), that each developer adding the annotations in his wiki will be able > to > specify (build an XWiki class to describe it, most probable). For example, > imagine syntax correction of a text, and being able to specify, for each > annotation, the type of mistake that is made, what to replace it with, an > explanation about the mistake, a vote count specifying how many users agree > with it. > Unless we decide that comments have by default structure too -- which is > not > necessarily a bad idea --, integration of the two is not that natural since > now > they are different types of data. And from this my idea that integrating > the > annotations with comments shouldn't be _the default_ but _one_ of the > possible > applications, for the case when the type of the data is the same. > > Now of course, there is also the other approach, that disconnecting the > annotations from the comments is one of the possible applications... :) > > > Thanks, > Anca > > > > >> - when you show linked replies for an annotation, the new comment you > add is > >> an annotation for the original annotation? or for the comment? :) > > > > Hay... I don't understand it at all. > > > > What user can do is : > > - Quoting the text while reading, using the quote button at the top > > of the text. > > - Opening a conversation related to the text quote directly on the > page. > > - Quoting the text while writting a comment, using the quote button > > in the comment field > > - Interacting in a classic way in comments > > > > The idea is more making a quote system, able to provide the same > > service as an annotation system adding the two first ways of > > interacting to the two last which would be the "classics" of a quoting > > system. > > > > > > Thx > > Thibaut > > > > > > 2010/1/18 Anca Luca<[email protected]> > >> > >> Hi JV, > >> > >> On 01/18/2010 07:21 PM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote: > >>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Thibaut DEVERAUX > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> I'm ok to the "add" button. This was only a very quick axis for > reflexion. > >>>> > >>>> I agree to ludovic on the point there is a need on something less > visible on > >>>> the page. Imo we can also make it more simple in the toughts. > >>>> > >>>> As I can't sleep this morning I have made some more constructed UX > about the > >>>> module. > >>>> Editable pdf (use illustrator or inkscape) : > >>>> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal/XWikiAnnotationmodule.pdf > >>>> Png on Flickr : > >>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/thibautdeveraux/sets/72157623219280278/ > >>>> This is ideas, use it in a "remix" way. ;) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Notes taken during the design (hope it is clear) : > >>>> > >>>> * > >>>> **Stage 1 : Get the concept from utility > >>>> > >>>> What are the utility uses of annotations ?* > >>>> > >>>> I guess that, in a global point of view, the use of anotations is to > discuss > >>>> on details points of a text. > >>>> > >>>> For example Mr John have redacted a commercial proposition and the > team > >>>> makes a review of it. > >>>> > >>>> Generally people quote the text in the comments. With the annotation > module > >>>> it will be more easy to find the parts of the text wich have been > commented. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> *===> Annotations are comments ?* > >>>> > >>>> For readers the utility use of comments is to see people reactions. > Both > >>>> comments and annotations are people reactions. > >>>> > >>>> If there is two tabs in the bottom menu, readers will have to swich > from one > >>>> to another to see all the people reactions, getting lose in having two > >>>> options for one single use. > >>>> > >>>> *Get the concept from utility :* > >>>> *For the reader, an annotations is a comment where a text is quoted* > >>>> > >>>> At this stage of the reflexion, we can guess that, the comment tab and > the > >>>> annotation tab at the bottom of the page should be merged. > >>>> > >>> > >>> This makes a lot of sense to me, has this option been explored ? Has > >>> it been dropped for some reason ? > >> > >> Indeed it makes a lot of sense but I'm thinking it should be an > 'additional' > >> integration using the annotations default implementation. > >> > >> Annotations are designed (and will be implemented) to be structured and > >> flexible, as in contain any kind of structured metadata (most probably > defined > >> by an xwiki class) with customizable views and all. This way they could > be > >> integrated with comments, if needed, or handled distinctly, if needed. > >> > >> We could indeed push for this kind of integration with XE, if we decide > we want > >> it like this, but I think the generic annotations feature should stay a > bit more > >> 'disconnected'. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Anca > >> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> *Stage 2 : get the interactions from usage chains > >>>> > >>>> Build the usage chains* ---> *Interactions * (priority : * to *** > ) > >>>> > >>>> Notice : if statements lead to a too complexe interface, select only > the > >>>> main points that should be keeped > >>>> > >>>> *First time reading :* > >>>> > >>>> - I read the page > >>>> --- While reading the page I notice the people annotations *----> > User can > >>>> see where are annotations on page *** > >>>> ----- *Then I may want to read it* ---> User can read > annotations directly > >>>> on the page *** > >>>> * ------- I may comment people reactions directly on the anotation > box *---> > >>>> User can comment the annotation directly on page* ** > >>>> --- While reading I may quote a part of the text and comment it > *---> User > >>>> can add an anotation direclty on page **** > >>>> * > >>>> * - I read the comments > >>>> --- While reading the comment I may notice that someone quoted a > part of > >>>> the page *---> User can see annotations in comments* *** > >>>> ----- Then I may go back to the text to find the quoted text in > context *---> > >>>> ** **User can see where are annotations on page **** > >>>> --- While reading the comments I may react to it *---> User can > answer to > >>>> comments (already done)* ** > >>>> ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *---> User can make > annotation > >>>> starting from the comment zone*** ** > >>>> * > >>>> * - I have read the page and want to make a comment *---> User can > make > >>>> comments (already done)* *** > >>>> ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *---> User can make > annotation > >>>> starting from the comment zone* ** > >>>> * > >>>> > >>>> **Comming back to see people reactions :* > >>>> * > >>>> * - I may look on the page to see if there is new part of the text > >>>> quoted *----> > >>>> User can see where are annotations on page *** /or even/ **User can > see wich > >>>> annotations are new on page ** > >>>> *----- *Then I may want to read it* ---> User can read > annotations > >>>> directly on the page *** > >>>> * ------- I may comment people reactions directly on the anotation > box *---> > >>>> User can comment the annotation directly on page* ** > >>>> > >>>> * * - More general way : I look for new comments *---> User can see > which > >>>> are the last comments (already done)* *** > >>>> --- While reading the comment I may notice that someone quoted a > part of > >>>> the page *---> User can see annotations in comments* *** > >>>> ----- Then I may go back to the text to find the quoted text in > context *---> > >>>> ** **User can see where are annotations on page **** > >>>> --- While reading the comments I may react to it *---> User can > answer to > >>>> comments (already done)* ** > >>>> ----- I may do it quoting a part of the text *---> User can make > annotation > >>>> starting from the comment zone* ** > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> *Quick reference :* > >>>> > >>>> *User can see where are annotations on page *** > >>>> **User can see which are the last comments (already done)* **** > >>>> > >>>> **User can read annotations in comments* *** > >>>> *User can read annotations directly on the page **** > >>>> > >>>> *User can add an anotation direclty on page **** > >>>> *User can add a comment (already done)* *** > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> *User can comment the annotation directly on page* ** > >>>> *User can comment the comments (already done)* **** > >>>> * > >>>> User can add annotation starting from the comment zone* ** > >>>> * > >>>> > >>>> User can see wich annotations are new directly on page ** > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> *Stage 3 : draw the interface* > >>>> > >>>> Have a look at the schemas. ;-) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> 2010/1/15 Ludovic Dubost<[email protected]> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm not sure if one button is better than showing upfront some > information. > >>>>> It might be something we might have as an option in the Wiki. And we > need a > >>>>> way to collapse it.. > >>>>> > >>>>> However one thing I'm quite sure of, is that it's enough blue bars.. > so we > >>>>> need something less visible in the page.. > >>>>> > >>>>> Select the text + add will be an issue since the "Add" button might > not be > >>>>> on screen.. > >>>>> > >>>>> Otherwise it's very nice.. I like the user colors, the annotation > setting > >>>>> and the annotation tab.. > >>>>> > >>>>> Note that an annotation creation or display can be much more than > just one > >>>>> text.. > >>>>> > >>>>> Ludovic > >>>>> > >>>>> Le 15/01/10 21:51, Thibaut DEVERAUX a écrit : > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Cathy, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> No time for visuals neither looking to much in it but did you think > about > >>>>>> a > >>>>>> single button "show annotations options" ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Button at start :* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Show annotations options> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Clicking on the button open a menu :* > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Show annotations options> > >>>>>> A line showing the users names by colors (if colors > activated) > >>>>>> [V] Hide/show icones on the page > >>>>>> -- [V] Hide/show colors > >>>>>> [+] Add annotation > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *Interact with anotations directly on the page :* > >>>>>> Use the icones on page to interact : see, modify, react... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Let me know... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thibaut > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 2010/1/15 Ecaterina Valica<[email protected]> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I made some UI suggestions for the annotations. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Overview: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/Annotations/proposalAnn.png > >>>>>>> Details: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/AnnotationsProposal > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Please let us (me and Anca) know what you think. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> devs mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > >> _______________________________________________ > >> devs mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
