On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 1:19 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > On 2 Oct 2014 at 21:11:11, Denis Gervalle ([email protected](mailto: > [email protected])) wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Guillaume Lerouge > > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > actually one thing we could try is this: > > > > > > - *Keep the "Add" button where it is and use it for page-related > > > actions:* > > This is not fully true. It’s NOT about page-related actions at all. It’s > about page **content** actions. > > Page-related actions are in the top level menus with “Delete page”, > “rename page”, “move page”. So it makes sense to have “Create child page” > in there too. > This is true, but not necessarily an issue here, it could be discussed. Basically, it is about adding more content to that content. It does not prevent the Page menu to contains the same option BTW. Giving user multiple path to the same action is not necessarily bad, it allow each user to use the tool with its own way of thinking. > > > > - "Add child page” > > How would it look differently than the one at the top since both have the > current page as the default parent? > By not implicitly choose a parent, but proposing to choose one in addition to the name. So this the create feature, no matter where I am, I want something new. > > > > - "Add comment" (as suggested by Denis) > > > - "Add attachment" (as suggested by Denis) > > The show links in the More actions menu also allow to add > comments/attachments and so does the extradoc tabs at the bottom of the > page. I’m wondering if it’s not confusing to have so many ways of doing the > same thing. > What I propose is different Vincent, it allow quickly adding comments, attachment and more if affinity, using a modal without scrolling (BTW, I also find annoying these buttons gets out of sight when scrolling) and without showing other object of the same nature (this is only an add feature). In regards to proposing the same feature from many different places, if we stay consistent in naming those function, the user will see more benefit than confusion. Actually, the duplication of the extradoc and the independent pages for the same feature is more confusing. The link you mention are also not very easy, because they load a new page (BTW, on those pages the link to go back to content is buried into the more option menu, not very intuitive). > > > > - *Add a "Create" button in the top bar, with 2/3 options:* > > > - "Create page" (TBD) > > > - "Create space" > > > - "Create wiki" > > > - In this case, after clicking "Create" the user would be presented > with > > > a page / modal box listing existing instances as well as available > > > templates > > > > > > I think this would solve both my issues (having less-frequent actions > in > > > the same location as a more-frequent one, not being in the right place > on > > > the page) and GuillaumeD's wife issue (the "Add" button is easy to find > > > where it is right now, why move it?). > > > > > > WDYT? > > > > > > > Big +1 for me. I am convince we need "in context" and "out of context" > > operation to be separated. > > I’m a bit less convinced than you Denis that have 2 “Add” actions is a > good thing. Don’t you think it could be confusing for the user and I don’t > think it’s very clear when to use one or another. And even more so since > the page that appears when you click them is the same one in both cases… > > ATM I still prefer having a single Add/Create button at the top by far > Actually this will not be the case, but if the feeling is that adding a page from the content is confusing, we will removed it. This does remove the need for a button to add stuff to content. As said earlier, we will also need to allow applications to hook on these buttons. On the top bar one to add more options for creating content out of context, and on the content one to add new objects to the current page. So even if you get rid of the content Add, my felling is that it will come back soon for application purposes anyway. > > Thanks > -Vincent > > > > Guillaume > > > ᐧ > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 1:48 PM, [email protected] > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2 Oct 2014 at 13:31:56, Eduard Moraru ([email protected] > (mailto: > > > > [email protected])) wrote: > > > > > > > > > On that note: > > > > > The funny/sad thing to realise is that we are basing all this > > > discussion > > > > on > > > > > the fact that some users did not find the "Add" button *only the > first > > > > > time* they tried to do something. The realization is that this is > one > > > of > > > > > those things (idioms[1][2]) that you learn once and know how to > easily > > > do > > > > > the next 1000x times (like riding a bike). > > > > > > > > > > The real problem appears when you are in those "next 1000x time" > and > > > you > > > > > find it cumbersome to use (like riding a bike with no saddle, or > with > > > the > > > > > saddle on backwards :) ). So in both cases (top or middle of the > page) > > > > once > > > > > you find it once, you will find it again, however in the middle of > the > > > > page > > > > > it conflicts too often with the Edit button and other page related > > > > actions, > > > > > that it becomes cumbersome to use. > > > > > > > > Indeed that’s something I had in mind too. If you just ask to add a > page > > > > and that’s all then you’re not doing a full test. You’d need to ask > the > > > > user to: > > > > - add a page > > > > - delete a page > > > > - move a page > > > > - create a space > > > > - etc > > > > > > > > And then only you can draw some conclusion IMO. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > -Vincent > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Eduard > > > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > [1] http://thor.info.uaic.ro/~evalica/hci/L2/ > > > > > [2] > > > > > https://www.englishforums.com/English/IdiomsVsMetaphors/cqwl/post.htm > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:47 PM, [email protected] > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2 Oct 2014 at 11:06:00, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau ( > > > > > > [email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have done the "test-on-my-wife" thing :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She finds it more intuitive to add a page from the current > page, so > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > current location, instead of the "black bar that gives the > > > > impression of > > > > > > > not beeing a part of that page" (that she did not manage to > find by > > > > > > > herself). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I then explained that the buttons inside the page only concern > the > > > > > > actions > > > > > > > that you can do on that page, meanwhile adding a new page > should be > > > > put > > > > > > in > > > > > > > an other location. She did not like this logic :) > > > > > > > > > > > > So with this logic we should remove the top bar completely and > move > > > all > > > > > > actions inside the page, i.e. have only 1 menu inside the page. > > > > Because if > > > > > > she couldn’t find the Add button there she also wouldn’t be able > to > > > > find > > > > > > all wiki-related actions, space-related actions and more > importantly > > > > > > **page-related** actions like copy page, rename page or delete > page… > > > > > > > > > > > > Also would be fun to ask your wife to try using Confluence and > see if > > > > she > > > > > > fails to create a page there too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > -Vincent > > > > > > > > > > > > > Users' logic and developer's logic are not the same. I like the > > > > current > > > > > > > location too, except that we should propose "create page" > before > > > > "create > > > > > > > wiki". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really would like to have some feedback of normal users, with > > > the 2 > > > > > > > proposals. We, as developers, are not good at making things > that > > > look > > > > > > > simple for other people, so we should not take this decision > alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Guillaume Delhumeau > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > -- Denis Gervalle SOFTEC sa - CEO _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
