Hi Anca, On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Anca Luca <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello Edi, > > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Eduard Moraru <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Anca Luca <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > so on the topic of "removing the dashboard from the homepage" and if > > people > > > need it they can access it independently. > > > > > > In my opinion, this dashboard does not really exist or have any value > > > beyond the homepage. I mean, what does it mean, what is it used for > > besides > > > the homepage? What would the dashboard be used other than having an > > > overview of the wiki? And if people remove it from the homepage of the > > > wiki, what would they put instead? An overview of the wiki? Isn't that > > what > > > dashboard means? > > > > > > > The idea of this proposal was that the homepage should be customized by > the > > admin. It should be a homepage. Instead of a Dashboard, it should contain > > information about the purpose of the wiki, information for newcomers, > > information about the organization, some video, etc. All of this we plan > to > > encourage the admins to customize so that they "take ownership" of their > > wiki instead of seeing it as just a tool with default settings. Some may > > see disadvantages to this, and prefer default tools, but others may see > the > > value of getting the user/admin involved. > > > > The Dashboard should be seen as a place to go to in order to see what is > > going on. Dashboards in the wild also tend to be customizable per users > (we > > technically support that as well, but it could be improved, i.e. have a > > default user dashboard in the 'My dashboard' section in the user profile > > instead of the empty space that is right now in view mode, promote it > more, > > etc.). They also tend to be used by more technical people > > > > Once the admin is involved and now aware of how to do things, he can > easily > > include the dashboard on the homepage if that is his view on the purpose > of > > his wiki. We can even propose it in the default content of the homepage. > > > > What you choose depends a lot on the usecase you have for your wiki, i.e. > > what flavor you`re using. For example, a dashboard is good for > > intranet/groupware but not that good for public websites. We are > > considering here what we want the default experience to offer/encourage > and > > maybe we should not really focus on/be influenced by any of the > flavors/use > > cases we are having in mind. > > > > > > > > > > By this logic, I would find it strange to have a homepage and a > > dashboard, > > > as 2 separate entities, because for me they would mean the same thing. > So > > > multiple possibilities: > > > 1/ our _default_ dashboard displayed on the homepage (included or not, > I > > > don't care) is not good enough because it does not offer a good > _default_ > > > overview of the wiki. We need to change the dashboard. > > > > > > This is not part of the use cases [1] extracted from previous > discussions. > > Are you proposing that we add "offer a good overview of the wiki" as a > new > > use case/goal or is this just a rewording of UC5 (navigation) ? > > > > I need to think a little more about this in order to make a complete > answer, but I read the list of usecases and I remarked one thing: > > In all UC1 to UC5, I think your "user" is more of an "admin" than a user. I > see the following flow in working with a wiki: > Alice downloads the wiki and plays around with it locally, tests it and > checks its features. Then, she is convinced by the tool and decides to move > this to the next level and install the wiki on a server (or get it > installed) so that she can collaborate with her colleagues, Bob, Billy and > Bogdan. To me Alice is not a user, she's more like a wiki admin. Then when > the wiki is installed on the server, the three B boys are the users and > Alice might become a user as well, or might always stay a little more > admin. When she moves from her private tests to a public tool, Alice > prepares the homepage of the wiki so that it matches the purpose of the > wiki and the B boys. Alice will need to "UC3: The user needs to be able to > easily replace the home page with his content" but the B boys won't. > > I think you`ve perfectly described what we want to do with the homepage (*in this proposal*), and yes, the user we are interested in in this case is the admin (Alice) that we want to encourage to take ownership of the wiki she is going to present to the wiki's users (B-boys) instead of offering them a vanilla "Untitled Document" experience :) I think that the admin (Alice) homepage needs cannot be analysed > independently from the user (Bob, Billy and Bogdan) homepage needs, because > we risk to provide the admin with customization tools that they will never > need because the user will never need such a customization. > In a way, that is exactly what the Dashboard is doing: it is *a tool* that the user is presented with by default and which he might not need (and has no idea how to get rid of). This proposal was about promoting more the wiki itself (not customization tools) and empowering the user that will deploy it so that he can provide an optimum experience to his users. We can`t really do much for the variety of use cases and users out there that might be using XWiki, but the admin can (*if he is able to*, and this is what this proposal is pushing for). The Dashboard is nice, no argument there, but it is just *a tool*, among others, that the admin could choose to use or not. Still, this is currently just one proposal amongst others [1]. Thanks, Eduard ---------- [1] http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/HomepageProposals > > Thanks, > Anca > > > > > > Thanks, > > Eduard > > > > [1] http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/HomepageUseCases > > > > > > > In this case, we > > > improve the way we modify this dashboard, to allow people to change the > > > "default" overview which guides the user through the wiki with an > > overview > > > that is more adapted to the user's usecase. > > > 2/ we change the homepage and we remove the dashboard from it and > > implement > > > an overview of the wiki differently (which would still be a dashboard > at > > > the conceptual level but implemented differently). In this case, the > > > Dashboard.WebHome should be removed completely from the menu, because > the > > > dashboard _is_ the home page (see my remark above) :) . We can make the > > > homepage a regular page so that users can edit it very easily by > default, > > > but we also allow them to easily make it a dashboard with gadgets and > > drag > > > & drop, so that they can organize their content. I am thinking for > > example > > > of a button on the homepage, in view mode injected with javascript or > UI > > > extension or I don't know, which runs a script that creates a new > version > > > of the homepage which contains a dashboard macro call and a default > > gadget > > > and the user is taken to the edit mode of the homepage, with the > > dashboard > > > editor in it. > > > > > > The only reason why the dashboard is separate now, in > Dashboard.WebHome, > > is > > > for legacy reasons, because it used to be included as the homepage of > all > > > sort of default spaces, so we needed something that can be re-used for > > > spaces homes as well. Otherwise, from my point of view, it does not > need > > to > > > be a separate entity. I mean, one should be able to create as many > > > dashboards as they'd want (on any page they want), but by default the > > > dashboard of the wiki is only one, the homepage of the wiki. > > > > > > Anca > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:23 PM, [email protected] < > [email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi devs, > > > > > > > > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see: > > > > - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586 > > > > - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x > > > > > > > > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because > > on > > > > the email thread some expressed their doubts. > > > > > > > > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread > > > > started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch": > > > > http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw > > > > > > > > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits): > > > > > > > > " > > > > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards > > removing > > > > the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway) and > > > > instead have it contain: > > > > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages) > > > > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc) > > > > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and > put > > > the > > > > content he wishes instead > > > > > > > > I think this would solve the following issues: > > > > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy > > > > (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to > > take > > > > ownership of the wiki as theirs. > > > > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page > > > > > > > > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy > > navigation > > > > in the wiki/spaces/pages. > > > > “ > > > > > > > > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead > have a > > > > simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that > > I’m > > > > proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for > > further > > > > discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be > > much > > > > appreciated. > > > > > > > > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good > idea > > or > > > > not. > > > > > > > > WDYT? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > -Vincent > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > devs mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devs mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
