Hi Jean, On 18 Sep 2015 at 12:05:22, Jean SIMARD ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote:
> In the XPath terminology for example, children are immediate descendant > of a node. The grand-children and grand-grand-children (etc.) are > called descendants. > > http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/xpath_nodes.asp > > My 2cts. > > PS: And in French, when you say "ce sont les enfants de M. Truc", it's > only about immediate descendant, not about grand-children. Check definition 3 of https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/enfant "(Par extension) Descendant direct et indirect. Nous sommes tous enfants d’Adam.” Thanks -Vincent > On 18/09/2015 12:00, [email protected] wrote: > > > > > > On 18 Sep 2015 at 11:51:21, Marius Dumitru Florea > > ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) > > wrote: > > > >> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 12:34 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >>> > >>> On 18 Sep 2015 at 11:27:33, Marius Dumitru Florea > >>> ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 3:10 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 17 Sep 2015 at 13:32:28, Eduard Moraru > >>>>> ([email protected](mailto:[email protected])) wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> With the introduction of Nested Spaces / Nested Documents, we find > >>>>>> ourselves having to expand our terminology to accommodate the tree-like > >>>>>> structure of spaces/documents that we are managing. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> IMO, we have started going in the wrong direction with using standard > >>>>>> tree > >>>>>> terminology directly in XWiki's UI, introducing new terms that simple > >>>>>> users > >>>>>> could be easily confused by or overwhelmed (this adding to the already > >>>>>> existing ones). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The specific issue I have in mind is how do we refer child entities for > >>>>>> each concept (wiki, space, page) and how does this scale when the > >>>>>> hierarchy > >>>>>> increases. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What I propose is that we Keep It SSimple (*™*) :) and just use the > >>>>>> "sub" > >>>>>> prefix for the concept at hand. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Examples: > >>>>>> * wiki -> subwiki (here we can continue using "wiki", as discussed > >>>>>> previously [1], since we don`t actually support nested wikis yet, but > >>>>>> if > >>>>>> "subwiki" is used in a conversation it still makes perfect sense) > >>>>>> * space -> subspace [2] > >>>>>> * page -> subpage [3] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The problem with the term "child", as pointed out by Marius in an > >>>>>> offline > >>>>>> chat, has indeed the issue that it can only be applied correctly for > >>>>>> first > >>>>>> level descendants, after which it becomes inaccurate, since starting > >>>>>> with > >>>>>> the second level the term "descendant" is more appropriate. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>>> I’m not sure about this. I think Children could be used generically to > >>>>> mean any level of Children but would need to be checked. > >>>> > >>>> If you have A.B.C: > >>>> > >>>> * the "Children" viewer (live table) will show "B, C" for A > >>> > >>> I think right now it also shows A but this could be fixed. > >>> > >>>> * the "Siblings" viewer (live table) will show only "B" (or nothing?) > >>>> for B > >>> > >> > >>> There’s no sibling for C in your definition. > >> > >> Yes, I know what siblings are :) but I said "for B" not "for C". > >> > >>> > >>> If you had: > >>> A.B.C > >>> A.B.D > >>> A.E > >>> > >>> Then the sibling for A.B.C would be A.B.D. Thus if you’re on A.B.C and > >>> ask for Sibling you’ll see D in the LT. > >>> > >> > >>> If you’re on A.B and ask for siblings you’ll see only E (and not E, C, D > >>> since C and D are not siblings of A.B). > >> > >> So you don't think that the statement > >> > >> "E and C are both children of A but they are not siblings because they > >> don't have he same parent" > >> > >> is confusing? > > > > I guess it depends how you consider Children. If you consider it to mean > > Children, grand-children, grand-grand-children, etc and use it as a general > > means, I guess it’s fine. I don’t know if this is acceptable in English or > > not. What I know is that if you say “Enfants” in French it can mean either > > immediate Children or all the children in the hierarchy (grand-children, > > grand-grand-children). > > > > Said differently, I have the feeling it’s better to have a More Actions > > menu entry named “Children” than having one named “Descendants” because I > > feel Children is a term more used. > > > > Thanks > > -Vincent > > > >>> Thanks > >>> -Vincent > >>> > >>>> So B and C are both children of A but are not siblings. That can be > >>>> confusing. You need the tree view to see the actual hierarchy. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Marius > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> All of this becomes unnecessarily complicated and, IMO, we should avoid > >>>>>> dealing with it by using the "sub" prefix which is much easier to > >>>>>> grasp and > >>>>>> accept. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On a similar note, I also find the term "nested" to be a bit > >>>>>> unnecessarily > >>>>>> complicated, specially for non-technical and non-english native users. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> WDYT? > >>>>> > >>>>> I don’t like the “Sub" terminology because it’s incomplete. It’s not > >>>>> complete because you still need words for Parents, Siblings, Root, etc. > >>>>> > >>>>> I'd much prefer to use a standard Tree terminology: > >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_(data_structure)#Terminologies_used_in_Trees > >>>>> > >>>>> BTW Terminal Page could be replaced by Leaf Page if we wanted too but > >>>>> maybe that’s too technical? > >>>>> > >>>>> I’d be ok to replace subwiki by Child Wiki/Children Wikis to be > >>>>> consistent. > >>>>> > >>>>> So overall I find Child/Children, Parent, and Siblings very easy to > >>>>> understand by any simple user. I find that using Sub, Parent, Siblings > >>>>> is not better (and it would certainly not replace Sibling). > >>>>> > >>>>> WDYT? > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks > >>>>> -Vincent > >>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>> Eduard > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ---------- > >>>>>> [1] http://markmail.org/message/cehvpds5qmljq5f7 > >>>>>> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspace > >>>>>> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpage > >>>>> > > _______________________________________________ > > devs mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > > > > -- > Jean Simard > [email protected] > Research engineer at XWiki SAS > http://www.xwiki.com > Committer on the XWiki.org project > http://www.xwiki.org > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
