200$/month for 5 people, that is. Not saying that price may not be worth paying if it helps productivity.
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Knut Staring <[email protected]> wrote: > Did you not have to sign up for the free trial license? > Our free trial includes all of the features of Oxygen XML Web Author for a > maximum of 30 days > > Seems to be 200 USD per month? > > oXygen XML Web Author uses a subscription floating license model with a > minimum commitment period of 12 months. > > On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Jason Pickering < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> I found what looks like a too-good-to-be-true WebApp version of Oxygen >> from the Google Play Store, which offers integration with GitHub. It seems >> to work. Might offer a new editor to replace my beloved deprecated Serna. >> You can try it out by adding oXygen XML WebApp extension to Chrome. Seems >> pretty sweet, but not sure if this is just a demo or something which is >> actually fully functional and free? >> >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Bob Jolliffe <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> http://docbkx-tools.sourceforge.net/docbkx-samples/manual.html seems >>> to suggest 5.0 is now supported. >>> >>> One of the features i have seen touted in 5.1 which is also part of >>> DITA (and no doubt Flare) is support for "topics". I guess the idea >>> here, to use the elearning jargon, is to be able to make reusabale >>> learning objects which can be differently combined in scorm modules >>> and the like. >>> >>> I do agree that at the moment the priority really should be more and >>> improved content. While we have that content in docbook xxx xml we >>> know that it is not going to be lost and can be shimmied into whatever >>> the toolchain of the future might be. In fact i am regretting getting >>> involved in this thread at all, but I am glad you got rid of the Serna >>> free comments :-) Back to work. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8 April 2016 at 04:13, Jason Pickering <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> > Hi Bob, >>> > >>> > Again, I think the fact that docbook has moved on is to us, not so >>> > important. We are using a very small subset of what docbook offers, and >>> > there are no real differences between 4.4 and 5.0 for our purposes, at >>> least >>> > which I have seen. One issue which we should investigate more is the >>> > supposed improved indexing in 5.0, which I have not been able to get to >>> > work. >>> > >>> > The major issue with upgrading the dependency from 4.4 to 4.5 of >>> docbook >>> > seems to be the lack of a publicly available maven artifact for either >>> 4.4 >>> > or 5.0. We could of course build it ourselves, or try and find >>> somewhere >>> > where its actually available, but since I managed to get this >>> combination >>> > working, I never really investigated it further. >>> > >>> > So again to emphasize, the reason we are using 4.4 is because of the >>> tool >>> > chain (docbkx) and getting that to work with either Docbook 4.5 or 5.0. >>> > >>> > Regards, >>> > Jason >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Bob Jolliffe <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Jason I saw your sed script to remove comments. That is that problem >>> >> solved :-) >>> >> >>> >> I don't have any problem with the docbook toolchain and wouldn't >>> >> lightly consider changing it. I think it works well. There is some >>> >> learning involved and a shortage of non-technical tooling but yet it >>> >> works well. I would consider upgrading to 5.0 (or 5.1) as that might >>> >> widen the scope of tooling available and would be relatively painless. >>> >> >>> >> But I agree that we need to focus on the concrete requirements rather >>> >> than products. And most of all, the content. >>> >> >>> >> On 7 April 2016 at 14:40, Jason Pickering < >>> [email protected]> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > Perhaps, but see my earlier mail regarding framework wars. >>> >> > >>> >> > This is the same discussion we are having about testing, use this >>> >> > framework >>> >> > or that framework. However, there are still too few tests, as no >>> one can >>> >> > agree. >>> >> > >>> >> > We have something which works. We have content which needs to be >>> >> > improved >>> >> > and updated. If there is a compelling reason to move away from >>> something >>> >> > which, albeit somewhat dated ...works, maybe it would be good to >>> outline >>> >> > the >>> >> > reasons for this change. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:21 PM, Knut Staring <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I see that Flare supports DITA, would that be a good alternative to >>> >> >> DocBook? >>> >> >> >>> >> >> http://dita.xml.org/ >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Bob Jolliffe < >>> [email protected]> >>> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On a spectrum between low-level standardized technical docbook >>> through >>> >> >>> to "user friendly" (use Word), vendor-locked proprietary and >>> patent >>> >> >>> encumbered technology, this one seems to fall on the far right :-) >>> >> >>> Not quite what I had in mind. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> I can see the attraction but I would be very wary to go in this >>> >> >>> direction. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On 7 April 2016 at 13:52, Rachael Brooke <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> > Hi everyone, >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > Cecilia and I have been thinking about trying out a new tool >>> that >>> >> >>> > could >>> >> >>> > handle big documentation projects, translation files and other >>> >> >>> > resources. So >>> >> >>> > it's good timing that this issue is being raised by you. >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > We were considering looking into a solution which you may know, >>> >> >>> > called >>> >> >>> > MadCap Flare: http://www.madcapsoftware.com/products/flare/. >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > If you have any other suggestions, we'd be happy to hear your >>> >> >>> > thoughts. >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > Thanks for bringing this up - we're investigating! >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > Rachael >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Knut Staring <[email protected]> >>> >> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Would be good to hear from our new documentation experts >>> (Rachael >>> >> >>> >> and >>> >> >>> >> Cecilia) on this issue (what kinds of tools they would be >>> >> >>> >> comfortable >>> >> >>> >> with >>> >> >>> >> etc). >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Knut >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Bob Jolliffe >>> >> >>> >> <[email protected]> >>> >> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Hi Jason, Lars >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> I am not sure the link about oxygen nested comments is really >>> >> >>> >>> addressing the "thing". >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> I agree with Lars that having the "<!-- Created by Serna Free >>> -->" >>> >> >>> >>> text inserted into all our documents is ugly, wrong and >>> >> >>> >>> misleading. >>> >> >>> >>> If you are using Serna Free I think it might be a simple >>> courtesy >>> >> >>> >>> to >>> >> >>> >>> just strip those comments before committing. Of course its >>> >> >>> >>> possible >>> >> >>> >>> to forget and maybe some sort of removal hook could be >>> configured >>> >> >>> >>> automatically (sed, xsltproc ..) but its maybe not so hard to >>> just >>> >> >>> >>> delete the line. >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> I am not sure of what the problem is with oxygen encountering >>> >> >>> >>> these >>> >> >>> >>> comments are though. Maybe I also don't get the "thing" :-) >>> I >>> >> >>> >>> open >>> >> >>> >>> the docbook files with oxygen and don't encounter a problem >>> >> >>> >>> related >>> >> >>> >>> to >>> >> >>> >>> the comment. The docbook4 "type" seems to be immediately >>> >> >>> >>> recognized >>> >> >>> >>> and I get a Docbook4 menu appear when I switch to author mode >>> >> >>> >>> whether >>> >> >>> >>> the comment is there or not. Is it an oxygen version issue (I >>> >> >>> >>> currently use 17.1) or is there some other issue I am missing? >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Though I think there are deeper issues at play. First is that >>> >> >>> >>> Serna >>> >> >>> >>> Free seems no longer to be maintained (as a free version). >>> One >>> >> >>> >>> consequence of this being that using it keeps us frozen in >>> time at >>> >> >>> >>> docbook 4.4. The last release of the docbook 4.x series was >>> 4.5 >>> >> >>> >>> back >>> >> >>> >>> in 2006. The 5.0 (and now 5.1) series has been out for quite >>> a >>> >> >>> >>> long >>> >> >>> >>> time now (2009?). AFAIK the only reason for sticking with >>> 4.x has >>> >> >>> >>> been the availability of Serna Free. >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> (Which is not a small thing. The sad truth is that another >>> good >>> >> >>> >>> free >>> >> >>> >>> candidate for docbook editing by non-technical authors hasn't >>> ever >>> >> >>> >>> emerged. Of course if you are more than a bit geeky then >>> emacs >>> >> >>> >>> does >>> >> >>> >>> a >>> >> >>> >>> good job. But even I don't use emacs anymore for editing >>> docbook >>> >> >>> >>> documents. I use oxygen, which is not free.) >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Two thoughts come to mind: >>> >> >>> >>> (i) it probably really makes sense to rejoin the (docbook) >>> world >>> >> >>> >>> and >>> >> >>> >>> move from 4.4 to 5.0. Particularly if the now defunct Serna >>> Free >>> >> >>> >>> is >>> >> >>> >>> the only factor holding us back. I understand that there are >>> >> >>> >>> transforms available to make this a painless journey. The >>> best >>> >> >>> >>> available in terms of free editing tools with a strong docbook >>> >> >>> >>> focus >>> >> >>> >>> seems to be the eclipse DEP4E plugin. Otherwise there are the >>> >> >>> >>> non-free tools as well as host of xml schema aware editors. >>> >> >>> >>> Admittedly none of these really qualify as eminently suitable >>> for >>> >> >>> >>> non-technical authors so the problem isn't really completely >>> >> >>> >>> solved, >>> >> >>> >>> but maybe improved slightly. >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> (ii) more radically, it might be time to consider moving from >>> >> >>> >>> docbook >>> >> >>> >>> altogether. There are a host of "cool" alternatives >>> (markdown and >>> >> >>> >>> friends) none of which I am fond of, but they have >>> enthusiastic >>> >> >>> >>> supporters. To me they all seem like endless reinventions of >>> >> >>> >>> roff/nroff/groff and certainly lack the maturity of docbook. >>> But >>> >> >>> >>> maybe the world has moved to a stage that its possible to >>> consider >>> >> >>> >>> editing html5/css3 documents directly? Certainly there is >>> >> >>> >>> considerable user friendly editing tools available. And >>> >> >>> >>> conversion >>> >> >>> >>> to >>> >> >>> >>> pdf seems not to be a problem. Though whether this would >>> cause >>> >> >>> >>> the >>> >> >>> >>> clean structure of documents to descend into anarchy I don't >>> >> >>> >>> really >>> >> >>> >>> know. >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> My 2 cents. I would certainly advocate (i) above (though >>> admit >>> >> >>> >>> its a >>> >> >>> >>> strong response to just getting rid of Serna Free comments). >>> (ii) >>> >> >>> >>> frightens me quite a bit. Certainly would be a lot of work. >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> In the end comes down to (i) who will do most of the >>> documentation >>> >> >>> >>> and >>> >> >>> >>> what do they like or tolerate, (ii) what effort is justified >>> to >>> >> >>> >>> fiddle >>> >> >>> >>> with what is really quite a nice looking set of existing >>> >> >>> >>> documentation. >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> For the moment lets at least agree to keep those horrible >>> comments >>> >> >>> >>> out. >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Bob >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> On 6 April 2016 at 11:31, Jason Pickering >>> >> >>> >>> <[email protected]> >>> >> >>> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> > For instance, perhaps this >>> >> >>> >>> > >>> >> >>> >>> > http://www.oxygenxml.com/forum/topic3658.html >>> >> >>> >>> > >>> >> >>> >>> > which seems to describe a means of getting around comments. >>> >> >>> >>> > >>> >> >>> >>> > >>> >> >>> >>> > >>> >> >>> >>> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Jason Pickering >>> >> >>> >>> > <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Hi Lars, >>> >> >>> >>> >> I think there must be a way around this, and I would not >>> be in >>> >> >>> >>> >> favor >>> >> >>> >>> >> at >>> >> >>> >>> >> all of ditching Serna. Its a good tool and not everyone has >>> >> >>> >>> >> access >>> >> >>> >>> >> to >>> >> >>> >>> >> a >>> >> >>> >>> >> relatively expensive commercial tool like Oxygen. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Serna Free inserts this automatically unfortunately when it >>> >> >>> >>> >> saves >>> >> >>> >>> >> the >>> >> >>> >>> >> document, but lets look for a look around to deal with >>> this in >>> >> >>> >>> >> Oxygen. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Regards, >>> >> >>> >>> >> Jason >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Lars Helge Øverland >>> >> >>> >>> >> <[email protected]> >>> >> >>> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> re the documentation.The Serna editor horribly inserts a >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> <!-- Created by Serna Free --> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> comment in all files it creates before the DTD. This >>> throws >>> >> >>> >>> >>> off >>> >> >>> >>> >>> Oxygen >>> >> >>> >>> >>> from detecting it to be a Docbook format. Lets not use >>> Serna >>> >> >>> >>> >>> anymore >>> >> >>> >>> >>> or at >>> >> >>> >>> >>> least make sure we don't get comments in the beginning of >>> >> >>> >>> >>> docbook >>> >> >>> >>> >>> xml >>> >> >>> >>> >>> files. >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> Lars >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >> >>> >>> >>> Lars Helge Øverland >>> >> >>> >>> >>> Lead developer, DHIS 2 >>> >> >>> >>> >>> University of Oslo >>> >> >>> >>> >>> Skype: larshelgeoverland >>> >> >>> >>> >>> http://www.dhis2.org >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> >>> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >>> >> >>> >>> >>> Post to : [email protected] >>> >> >>> >>> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >>> >> >>> >>> >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >> -- >>> >> >>> >>> >> Jason P. Pickering >>> >> >>> >>> >> email: [email protected] >>> >> >>> >>> >> tel:+46764147049 >>> >> >>> >>> > >>> >> >>> >>> > >>> >> >>> >>> > >>> >> >>> >>> > >>> >> >>> >>> > -- >>> >> >>> >>> > Jason P. Pickering >>> >> >>> >>> > email: [email protected] >>> >> >>> >>> > tel:+46764147049 >>> >> >>> >>> > >>> >> >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> >>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >>> >> >>> >>> > Post to : [email protected] >>> >> >>> >>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >>> >> >>> >>> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >> >>> >>> > >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >>> >> >>> >>> Post to : [email protected] >>> >> >>> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >>> >> >>> >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> >>> >> Knut Staring >>> >> >>> >> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo >>> >> >>> >> Norway: +4791880522 >>> >> >>> >> Skype: knutstar >>> >> >>> >> http://dhis2.org >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -- >>> >> >> Knut Staring >>> >> >> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo >>> >> >> Norway: +4791880522 >>> >> >> Skype: knutstar >>> >> >> http://dhis2.org >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > Jason P. Pickering >>> >> > email: [email protected] >>> >> > tel:+46764147049 >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Jason P. Pickering >>> > email: [email protected] >>> > tel:+46764147049 >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jason P. Pickering >> email: [email protected] >> tel:+46764147049 >> > > > > -- > Knut Staring > Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo > Norway: +4791880522 > Skype: knutstar > http://dhis2.org > -- Knut Staring Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo Norway: +4791880522 Skype: knutstar http://dhis2.org
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