We already have university licenses for oXygen XML, maybe that also entitles us to a license for the web version? (if you want to use that instead)
-- Morten Olav Hansen Senior Engineer, DHIS 2 University of Oslo http://www.dhis2.org On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Jason Pickering < [email protected]> wrote: > Hi Knut, > > If it would get you writing some docs, it would be well worth it. :) > > Seriously though, these are floating licenses, so they would be good for > more than 5 people. We have two dedicated technical writers now, but up > until now, there have been few people actually writing the docs. So, these > five licenses would go a long way. > > Regards, > Jason > > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Knut Staring <[email protected]> wrote: > >> 200$/month for 5 people, that is. >> >> Not saying that price may not be worth paying if it helps productivity. >> >> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Knut Staring <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Did you not have to sign up for the free trial license? >>> Our free trial includes all of the features of Oxygen XML Web Author for >>> a maximum of 30 days >>> >>> Seems to be 200 USD per month? >>> >>> oXygen XML Web Author uses a subscription floating license model with a >>> minimum commitment period of 12 months. >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Jason Pickering < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I found what looks like a too-good-to-be-true WebApp version of Oxygen >>>> from the Google Play Store, which offers integration with GitHub. It seems >>>> to work. Might offer a new editor to replace my beloved deprecated Serna. >>>> You can try it out by adding oXygen XML WebApp extension to Chrome. >>>> Seems pretty sweet, but not sure if this is just a demo or something which >>>> is actually fully functional and free? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Bob Jolliffe <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> http://docbkx-tools.sourceforge.net/docbkx-samples/manual.html seems >>>>> to suggest 5.0 is now supported. >>>>> >>>>> One of the features i have seen touted in 5.1 which is also part of >>>>> DITA (and no doubt Flare) is support for "topics". I guess the idea >>>>> here, to use the elearning jargon, is to be able to make reusabale >>>>> learning objects which can be differently combined in scorm modules >>>>> and the like. >>>>> >>>>> I do agree that at the moment the priority really should be more and >>>>> improved content. While we have that content in docbook xxx xml we >>>>> know that it is not going to be lost and can be shimmied into whatever >>>>> the toolchain of the future might be. In fact i am regretting getting >>>>> involved in this thread at all, but I am glad you got rid of the Serna >>>>> free comments :-) Back to work. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 8 April 2016 at 04:13, Jason Pickering <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Hi Bob, >>>>> > >>>>> > Again, I think the fact that docbook has moved on is to us, not so >>>>> > important. We are using a very small subset of what docbook offers, >>>>> and >>>>> > there are no real differences between 4.4 and 5.0 for our purposes, >>>>> at least >>>>> > which I have seen. One issue which we should investigate more is the >>>>> > supposed improved indexing in 5.0, which I have not been able to get >>>>> to >>>>> > work. >>>>> > >>>>> > The major issue with upgrading the dependency from 4.4 to 4.5 of >>>>> docbook >>>>> > seems to be the lack of a publicly available maven artifact for >>>>> either 4.4 >>>>> > or 5.0. We could of course build it ourselves, or try and find >>>>> somewhere >>>>> > where its actually available, but since I managed to get this >>>>> combination >>>>> > working, I never really investigated it further. >>>>> > >>>>> > So again to emphasize, the reason we are using 4.4 is because of the >>>>> tool >>>>> > chain (docbkx) and getting that to work with either Docbook 4.5 or >>>>> 5.0. >>>>> > >>>>> > Regards, >>>>> > Jason >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Bob Jolliffe <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Jason I saw your sed script to remove comments. That is that >>>>> problem >>>>> >> solved :-) >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I don't have any problem with the docbook toolchain and wouldn't >>>>> >> lightly consider changing it. I think it works well. There is some >>>>> >> learning involved and a shortage of non-technical tooling but yet it >>>>> >> works well. I would consider upgrading to 5.0 (or 5.1) as that >>>>> might >>>>> >> widen the scope of tooling available and would be relatively >>>>> painless. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> But I agree that we need to focus on the concrete requirements >>>>> rather >>>>> >> than products. And most of all, the content. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On 7 April 2016 at 14:40, Jason Pickering < >>>>> [email protected]> >>>>> >> wrote: >>>>> >> > Perhaps, but see my earlier mail regarding framework wars. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > This is the same discussion we are having about testing, use this >>>>> >> > framework >>>>> >> > or that framework. However, there are still too few tests, as no >>>>> one can >>>>> >> > agree. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > We have something which works. We have content which needs to be >>>>> >> > improved >>>>> >> > and updated. If there is a compelling reason to move away from >>>>> something >>>>> >> > which, albeit somewhat dated ...works, maybe it would be good to >>>>> outline >>>>> >> > the >>>>> >> > reasons for this change. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:21 PM, Knut Staring <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> I see that Flare supports DITA, would that be a good alternative >>>>> to >>>>> >> >> DocBook? >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> http://dita.xml.org/ >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Bob Jolliffe < >>>>> [email protected]> >>>>> >> >> wrote: >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> On a spectrum between low-level standardized technical docbook >>>>> through >>>>> >> >>> to "user friendly" (use Word), vendor-locked proprietary and >>>>> patent >>>>> >> >>> encumbered technology, this one seems to fall on the far right >>>>> :-) >>>>> >> >>> Not quite what I had in mind. >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> I can see the attraction but I would be very wary to go in this >>>>> >> >>> direction. >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> On 7 April 2016 at 13:52, Rachael Brooke <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>> > Hi everyone, >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > Cecilia and I have been thinking about trying out a new tool >>>>> that >>>>> >> >>> > could >>>>> >> >>> > handle big documentation projects, translation files and other >>>>> >> >>> > resources. So >>>>> >> >>> > it's good timing that this issue is being raised by you. >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > We were considering looking into a solution which you may >>>>> know, >>>>> >> >>> > called >>>>> >> >>> > MadCap Flare: http://www.madcapsoftware.com/products/flare/. >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > If you have any other suggestions, we'd be happy to hear your >>>>> >> >>> > thoughts. >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > Thanks for bringing this up - we're investigating! >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > Rachael >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Knut Staring < >>>>> [email protected]> >>>>> >> >>> > wrote: >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> Would be good to hear from our new documentation experts >>>>> (Rachael >>>>> >> >>> >> and >>>>> >> >>> >> Cecilia) on this issue (what kinds of tools they would be >>>>> >> >>> >> comfortable >>>>> >> >>> >> with >>>>> >> >>> >> etc). >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> Knut >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Bob Jolliffe >>>>> >> >>> >> <[email protected]> >>>>> >> >>> >> wrote: >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> Hi Jason, Lars >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> I am not sure the link about oxygen nested comments is >>>>> really >>>>> >> >>> >>> addressing the "thing". >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> I agree with Lars that having the "<!-- Created by Serna >>>>> Free -->" >>>>> >> >>> >>> text inserted into all our documents is ugly, wrong and >>>>> >> >>> >>> misleading. >>>>> >> >>> >>> If you are using Serna Free I think it might be a simple >>>>> courtesy >>>>> >> >>> >>> to >>>>> >> >>> >>> just strip those comments before committing. Of course its >>>>> >> >>> >>> possible >>>>> >> >>> >>> to forget and maybe some sort of removal hook could be >>>>> configured >>>>> >> >>> >>> automatically (sed, xsltproc ..) but its maybe not so hard >>>>> to just >>>>> >> >>> >>> delete the line. >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> I am not sure of what the problem is with oxygen >>>>> encountering >>>>> >> >>> >>> these >>>>> >> >>> >>> comments are though. Maybe I also don't get the "thing" >>>>> :-) I >>>>> >> >>> >>> open >>>>> >> >>> >>> the docbook files with oxygen and don't encounter a problem >>>>> >> >>> >>> related >>>>> >> >>> >>> to >>>>> >> >>> >>> the comment. The docbook4 "type" seems to be immediately >>>>> >> >>> >>> recognized >>>>> >> >>> >>> and I get a Docbook4 menu appear when I switch to author >>>>> mode >>>>> >> >>> >>> whether >>>>> >> >>> >>> the comment is there or not. Is it an oxygen version issue >>>>> (I >>>>> >> >>> >>> currently use 17.1) or is there some other issue I am >>>>> missing? >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> Though I think there are deeper issues at play. First is >>>>> that >>>>> >> >>> >>> Serna >>>>> >> >>> >>> Free seems no longer to be maintained (as a free version). >>>>> One >>>>> >> >>> >>> consequence of this being that using it keeps us frozen in >>>>> time at >>>>> >> >>> >>> docbook 4.4. The last release of the docbook 4.x series >>>>> was 4.5 >>>>> >> >>> >>> back >>>>> >> >>> >>> in 2006. The 5.0 (and now 5.1) series has been out for >>>>> quite a >>>>> >> >>> >>> long >>>>> >> >>> >>> time now (2009?). AFAIK the only reason for sticking with >>>>> 4.x has >>>>> >> >>> >>> been the availability of Serna Free. >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> (Which is not a small thing. The sad truth is that >>>>> another good >>>>> >> >>> >>> free >>>>> >> >>> >>> candidate for docbook editing by non-technical authors >>>>> hasn't ever >>>>> >> >>> >>> emerged. Of course if you are more than a bit geeky then >>>>> emacs >>>>> >> >>> >>> does >>>>> >> >>> >>> a >>>>> >> >>> >>> good job. But even I don't use emacs anymore for editing >>>>> docbook >>>>> >> >>> >>> documents. I use oxygen, which is not free.) >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> Two thoughts come to mind: >>>>> >> >>> >>> (i) it probably really makes sense to rejoin the (docbook) >>>>> world >>>>> >> >>> >>> and >>>>> >> >>> >>> move from 4.4 to 5.0. Particularly if the now defunct >>>>> Serna Free >>>>> >> >>> >>> is >>>>> >> >>> >>> the only factor holding us back. I understand that there >>>>> are >>>>> >> >>> >>> transforms available to make this a painless journey. The >>>>> best >>>>> >> >>> >>> available in terms of free editing tools with a strong >>>>> docbook >>>>> >> >>> >>> focus >>>>> >> >>> >>> seems to be the eclipse DEP4E plugin. Otherwise there are >>>>> the >>>>> >> >>> >>> non-free tools as well as host of xml schema aware editors. >>>>> >> >>> >>> Admittedly none of these really qualify as eminently >>>>> suitable for >>>>> >> >>> >>> non-technical authors so the problem isn't really completely >>>>> >> >>> >>> solved, >>>>> >> >>> >>> but maybe improved slightly. >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> (ii) more radically, it might be time to consider moving >>>>> from >>>>> >> >>> >>> docbook >>>>> >> >>> >>> altogether. There are a host of "cool" alternatives >>>>> (markdown and >>>>> >> >>> >>> friends) none of which I am fond of, but they have >>>>> enthusiastic >>>>> >> >>> >>> supporters. To me they all seem like endless reinventions >>>>> of >>>>> >> >>> >>> roff/nroff/groff and certainly lack the maturity of >>>>> docbook. But >>>>> >> >>> >>> maybe the world has moved to a stage that its possible to >>>>> consider >>>>> >> >>> >>> editing html5/css3 documents directly? Certainly there is >>>>> >> >>> >>> considerable user friendly editing tools available. And >>>>> >> >>> >>> conversion >>>>> >> >>> >>> to >>>>> >> >>> >>> pdf seems not to be a problem. Though whether this would >>>>> cause >>>>> >> >>> >>> the >>>>> >> >>> >>> clean structure of documents to descend into anarchy I don't >>>>> >> >>> >>> really >>>>> >> >>> >>> know. >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> My 2 cents. I would certainly advocate (i) above (though >>>>> admit >>>>> >> >>> >>> its a >>>>> >> >>> >>> strong response to just getting rid of Serna Free >>>>> comments). (ii) >>>>> >> >>> >>> frightens me quite a bit. Certainly would be a lot of work. >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> In the end comes down to (i) who will do most of the >>>>> documentation >>>>> >> >>> >>> and >>>>> >> >>> >>> what do they like or tolerate, (ii) what effort is >>>>> justified to >>>>> >> >>> >>> fiddle >>>>> >> >>> >>> with what is really quite a nice looking set of existing >>>>> >> >>> >>> documentation. >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> For the moment lets at least agree to keep those horrible >>>>> comments >>>>> >> >>> >>> out. >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> Bob >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> On 6 April 2016 at 11:31, Jason Pickering >>>>> >> >>> >>> <[email protected]> >>>>> >> >>> >>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>> >>> > For instance, perhaps this >>>>> >> >>> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> >>> > http://www.oxygenxml.com/forum/topic3658.html >>>>> >> >>> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> >>> > which seems to describe a means of getting around >>>>> comments. >>>>> >> >>> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> >>> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Jason Pickering >>>>> >> >>> >>> > <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Hi Lars, >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> I think there must be a way around this, and I would not >>>>> be in >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> favor >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> at >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> all of ditching Serna. Its a good tool and not everyone >>>>> has >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> access >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> to >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> a >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> relatively expensive commercial tool like Oxygen. >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Serna Free inserts this automatically unfortunately when >>>>> it >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> saves >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> the >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> document, but lets look for a look around to deal with >>>>> this in >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Oxygen. >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Regards, >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Jason >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Lars Helge Øverland >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> <[email protected]> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> wrote: >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> re the documentation.The Serna editor horribly inserts a >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> <!-- Created by Serna Free --> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> comment in all files it creates before the DTD. This >>>>> throws >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> off >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Oxygen >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> from detecting it to be a Docbook format. Lets not use >>>>> Serna >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> anymore >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> or at >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> least make sure we don't get comments in the beginning >>>>> of >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> docbook >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> xml >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> files. >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Lars >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> -- >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Lars Helge Øverland >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Lead developer, DHIS 2 >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> University of Oslo >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Skype: larshelgeoverland >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> http://www.dhis2.org >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Post to : [email protected] >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> -- >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Jason P. Pickering >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> email: [email protected] >>>>> >> >>> >>> >> tel:+46764147049 >>>>> >> >>> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> >>> > -- >>>>> >> >>> >>> > Jason P. Pickering >>>>> >> >>> >>> > email: [email protected] >>>>> >> >>> >>> > tel:+46764147049 >>>>> >> >>> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> >>> >>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >>>>> >> >>> >>> > Post to : [email protected] >>>>> >> >>> >>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >>>>> >> >>> >>> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>> >> >>> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> >>> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >>>>> >> >>> >>> Post to : [email protected] >>>>> >> >>> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >>>>> >> >>> >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> -- >>>>> >> >>> >> Knut Staring >>>>> >> >>> >> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo >>>>> >> >>> >> Norway: +4791880522 >>>>> >> >>> >> Skype: knutstar >>>>> >> >>> >> http://dhis2.org >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> -- >>>>> >> >> Knut Staring >>>>> >> >> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo >>>>> >> >> Norway: +4791880522 >>>>> >> >> Skype: knutstar >>>>> >> >> http://dhis2.org >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > -- >>>>> >> > Jason P. Pickering >>>>> >> > email: [email protected] >>>>> >> > tel:+46764147049 >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Jason P. Pickering >>>>> > email: [email protected] >>>>> > tel:+46764147049 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jason P. Pickering >>>> email: [email protected] >>>> tel:+46764147049 >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Knut Staring >>> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo >>> Norway: +4791880522 >>> Skype: knutstar >>> http://dhis2.org >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Knut Staring >> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo >> Norway: +4791880522 >> Skype: knutstar >> http://dhis2.org >> > > > > -- > Jason P. Pickering > email: [email protected] > tel:+46764147049 > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters > Post to : [email protected] > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > >
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