On Thursday, 20 October 2016 at 09:10:10 UTC, Chris wrote:
I.e. "He agrees with me, therefore I like him!" One year of
meetings to design a website does not necessarily mean the
site's good or that it has to take at least a year until you
have a presentable website.
Sorry, was too busy with some darn project to respond. Been
rewriting from zero some custom webshop system that guys in
Poland wrote ( horrible bugs, bloated and just nasty ). Ended up
writing a metadata/json structure linked to a entry commit
system. Yay ... 15 tables to 3, mysql queries down to 1/10 etc...
Already 5 times as fast and its not even optimized. *sigh*
So tired seeing entry level PHP code. Guess why i am interested
in learning D. I need a break and move to something better *lol*.
Designing a website for a company means that the marketing
knobs feel they have to throw in their 2 cents and want them
acted upon or they block the whole process - then at the end,
all of a sudden the boss - who never cared for the website -
wants to have a look too and here we go again...
We're talking about font-sizes, gradient colors, button 2px to
the left, company logo bigger/smaller etc, not about the page
logic. Of course, because they know nothing about programming
they go by what they see and try to make a contribution there,
just for the sake of it.
No kidding ... bosses need to keep there hands out of projects.
They are in general more trouble then they are worth. *lol*
We just lost 2 months on a project, because the bosses had the
brilliant idea to outsource and started pitching / pushing it.
And the whole discussion dragged on preventing us from starting
on a major project ( why start on something that may be done by
somebody else? ).
O, that webshop that now needs a rewrite from zero, was a direct
result of another outsource. Yay! And the client ends up paying (
again ) for that.
Some projects simply take time. That whole travel site was indeed
slow but the end result is definitely not bad. But, like you
said, sometimes too many cooks in the kitchen slows things down.
My and my college have rewritten several disaster projects,
mostly in 3 to 4 months time per project. The reason we are fast
is because we are in sync and the bosses stayed mostly out of the
rewrite projects. We do it our way ( finally ) and the end
results speak for themselves.
Unfortunately, bosses are bosses. Two senior PHP developers cost
money ( hell, we are cheap, under payed ). They can never stop
looking for money, while they trow money out of the door in one
after another foolish scheme. Technically we are keeping the
company afloat. *sigh*
Unfortunately, it is often forgotten that each website needs a
different, unique approach. Getting inspiration from other
websites is good, trying to copy them is not a good idea,
because it will never serve your purpose optimally.
Yep ...
The real craftsmanship behind a website is mastering the
various technologies that don't work smoothly together (HTML,
JS, PHP, forms, requests, server side stuff, browsers, data
bases). Web design is 90% page logic, 10% inspiration.
On this i kind of disagree. I can handle all the web techs with
ease but you need people who can see things more in graphical /
marketing / ease of use sense. We developers see a lot of times
too much from our perspective.
Its the same reason why i mentioned the whole examples on the
front page. While i had more then one reason to skip D, the
mentioned example was one of them. When people have choices, they
make them very fast.
Ali for instance, did a great job on his book. Its easy to get
into, maybe a bit redundant from a more experience developers
point of view but you quickly see the small details. Things you
will simply look over without realizing.
Stupid and simple example that will make every developer here
think: "this Benjiro guy is stupid". *haha*
Most example's simply show something like:
writefln("The minimum of %s is %d", test, min);
But what if you simply want to join two lines together. In PHP
you do:
print('Hello' . 'World');
Try that in D. Does not work with dot. You need to use comma's.
Comma's in PHP is a instant parse error. While the dots are a
compile error in D.
writeln('Hello', 'World').
Yea ... sounds stupid but its those details that get lost in the
flood of data. Don't overthink the whole "why do you want to
merge Hello World", its just a silly example.
How about ~ for merging? That is also very fast overlooked. I
know it sounds ridiculous but frankly, i do not have a lot of
time so i try to learn on the fly. But its annoying getting
hampered by those small details when your trying some code, until
you finally figure it out.
Yes, its great that D has pipelines, template, alias, fibers etc
but those are already more advanced concepts. Something so simple
as the whole comma or merge syntax, does not even get mentioned
in the Learn section ( not that i found ).
I found it in Ali's book but try finding me a few D newbies that
invest into buying a book or find Ali's website. It takes a while
to search the website and figure even the basic resource out. And
in the one spot you expect to see this, its not even mentioned.
Maybe i am too much the spoilsport here but with limited amount
of time, those small things quickly frustrate. Because i am
already committed, i am willing to invest the limited time i
have. Not all people will do that.
The Learn corner is good for people with experience. But its
still lacking in details. Maybe Ali can take a look at expanding
it? Or maybe make Ali's book like a "newbie" learn? :)
Its a bit long with 700+ pages but i do not know a single
language website that has such a expanded tutorial *lol*
Just my 2 cents. Its late and i am tired.
