On 10/15/2010 5:00 PM, Bernhard Dippold wrote:
Hi Barbara, Charles, all,
having read the threads on disc...@ooo during the last months I know about the problems with
unsubscribed posters there and the off-topic messages just informing the list to CC the
unsubscribed OP.
Barbara Duprey schrieb:
On 10/15/2010 11:58 AM, Charles Marcus wrote:
On 2010-10-15 9:58 AM, James Wilde wrote:
On Oct 15, 2010, at 13:43 , Charles Marcus wrote:
[...]
Doesn't it make more sense just to modify the Reply-To header (to
both the list and the OP) and let the mail client just do the right
thing?
You mean automatically, or in the copy of the message that comes to
the moderators? I didn't think that any changes one made to this
would percolate through to the message subsequently posted to the
list, but I'm willing to try.
Yes, automatically... if the list software cannot do it natively, then
someone could write a custom handler (at least in mailman you can do
this, if exmlm can't then thats another reason to change) that would
accept posts from non-members, but with some extra processing where it
modified the Reply-To headers.
The reason allowing non-members to post is a problem (endless questions
and explanations) is *because* these messages are currently handled
manually.
Sorry, but I see it differently:
While you seem to think of the best way the user get the information asked for, this is not the
main reason for a users mailing list.
I'm probably not the only community member starting his "OOo career" with a question on the users
list.
It's one of the main possibilities to find non-coding community members
(besides documentation).
[Bernhard, I'm not sure you actually saw my post == it's all snipped here. But I think it's
pertinent to some of your points.]
I'm sure you're not the only one to use the list this way, but I'm pretty sure that investigation
would show two main motivations: getting answers to questions, and learning about the capabilities
and possible difficulties of the software (and that kind of user would almost certainly subscribe).
Participation would generally come later, when people are more familiar with the software and the
community.
I'd rather propose to state clearly on the website the different ways for
getting user support:
- People hesitant to subscribe to the mailing list should ask their questions
on the forum.
In my experience, people are much less hesitant to subscribe to a mailing list than to learn about
forum use (many more people use e-mail than forums) and identify the proper forum to use for their
question. All of OOo (or LibO) is just "it"!
- If users want to ask their question on the mailing list, they should subscribe IMHO and find out
how our community works.
The main issue here is the volume of mail on the most likely lists (users and discuss). Many of
these folks are not especially (or even somewhat!) tech savvy; they just want to get an answer to a
question, not wade through lots of things of no interest to them. I'll bet many don't know how to
set up filters so all the list mail stays separate from their regular mail, and they quite likely
don't even understand threading. When they've subscribed, and gotten swamped and/or irritated, we
get "unsubscribe me" requests/demands.
With the information by the moderators they will have the chance to get all the replies from the
archive or subscribe and perhaps become a community member.
The main problem I see with directing them to the archive is that in a large number of cases,
they're asked to supply additional information so we can help, and the archive is not set up for
that (at least, the OOo one isn't).
I don't want the "OP is not subscribed. Please CC him" mails on this mailing list and the
discussions about the necessity for them.
I agree this is not good -- but at the moment no really satisfactory alternative has been developed.
That's why these discussions keep occurring.
Who ever wants to CC him can do so, but without bothering others.
It is often not clear whether or not the OP is subscribed -- many can't/won't look at the full
headers or filter on them, and sometimes they join the discussion later, when the header is not
available. For somebody who really has an interest in the "care and feeding" of currently
unsubscribed users, so they can eventually be brought into the community, or at least be happy with
the software, this means that the OP may well be dissatisfied. They don't get answers, and assume we
don't care.
Helping users with their questions is just one task of our mailing lists. Involving them with the
community is another - in my eyes at least equal important!
Best regards
Bernhard
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