Glad to hear it Adi, Keep up the good work--don't allow this victory to fizzle out the movement.
Maybe come up with a list of terms required for student satisfaction--or a "bill of student email/app rights" that the campus could adopt or use as a guideline? Keep us posted on what you all are up to! - Matt > Update: > > Just got word that Yale has *delayed* their Gmail/Gapps program, and the > administration will open up to the community for arguments and concerns. > Our > actions made them realize they have more to think about than they > originally > realized. Students + (angry) CS professors = effective combo! > > -Adi > > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Matthew Senate > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> http://wiki.freeculture.org/FCX/Unconference/Google_eating_or_providing_University_services >> >> will add more later. i encourage other attendees to do so as well. >> >> > Hey Alex, >> > >> > Alex Kozak <[email protected]> writes: >> > >> >> I'd love to have a conversation about this at the conference... would >> be >> >> interesting to hear everyone's perspective. I think this is a great >> >> debate >> >> to have. >> >> >> > >> > Unfortunately I missed the conference this year. Did any conversation >> > about it happen? >> > >> >> John you know I agree with the ideals of free software, but I think I >> >> have a >> >> more pragmatic view when it comes to Google. Does the increased risk >> to >> >> "corporate interference" and reduced autonomy outweigh the potential >> >> benefits of these technologies? For a school without any >> collaboration >> >> systems, and little capacity to deploy one, the Google option would >> >> clearly >> >> be a net win for education and the university's mission to educate. >> And >> >> it >> >> would be a win for free culture in that the capabilities for >> >> collaboration >> >> and learning presented by the internet are being harnessed by the >> >> institutions who could most benefit from their use. >> >> >> > >> > I understand the appeal of this argument, but it accepts the status >> quo >> > as a given, ignoring the leadership role that universities have >> > (imperfectly) had, and what they are capable of. The university has >> the >> > choice to either be part of the demand for freedom or to instead >> support >> > lack of freedom and expect someone else to take the leadership role. I >> > sure am glad universities continued the growth of the Internet and >> > standardized email instead of going the direction of private AOL-like >> > networks. >> > >> > As Asheesh points out, to require Google Services is to require >> student >> > and faculty disclosure of their academic work and communications to >> both >> > the government and a corporation. This does strike me as a much more >> > sinister kind of corporate interference than hanging sponsorship >> banners >> > up in the student union or the like. It also means relying on code >> that >> > no one at the university has ever seen, so it means simply trusting a >> > corporation to do the right thing. >> > >> > I think your way of framing this also creates a much wider technology >> > gap than there is. Google services obviously have features that add >> > appeal, but let's be honest about what the actual damage to the >> > university's mission from not making their use *mandatory* is, and >> let's >> > also remember that the largest successful collaborative writing and >> > research project in history is run using exclusively free software... >> > >> >> I definitely agree that other things being equal a floss solution is >> >> preferable over Google. And think it's even inevitable that free >> >> software >> >> will compete with Google apps-like services. But in the meantime >> should >> >> schools not be encouraging the use of new technology until the floss >> >> solution is as optimal as Google? >> >> >> > >> > There's no "in the meantime" in the current way these decisions are >> > being made -- to adopt Google services is to actively undercut and >> work >> > against the demand for free software solutions (which may or may not >> be >> > services in the traditional sense). Universities are large and slow. >> If >> > they change to Google now, they aren't going to want to change again >> to >> > a free software system in 3 years, even if an awesome one does exist. >> > >> > We also can't impose the "in the meantime" rationale we wish were >> there >> > on the decision -- when the decision is made based on cost, that's the >> > rationale -- not this desire you're expressing to benefit >> collaborative >> > or free culture projects. Failing to oppose a decision made on a poor >> > rationale simply because an alternate rationale could justify it >> better >> > is a dangerous path to take. When a decision is at best >> pro-free-culture >> > because of incidental side effects, that's a deceptive and often >> harmful >> > kind of win. >> > >> > If universities were *actually* saying, "We're going to use Google >> > services now, because we need that functionality to support >> > collaboration, but we'll continue to support development of free >> > software alternatives with an eye toward re-acquiring our academic >> > independence in 2015," then this would be a much different discussion. >> > >> > From what I've seen, that's not what they're saying. What they're >> saying >> > is more akin to, "It's cheaper, and software is just part of the >> > infrastructure, like the air conditioning, and Google is popular." >> > That's not something we should be okay with. >> > >> > -- >> > -John Sullivan >> > -http://wjsullivan.net >> > -GPG Key: AE8600B6 >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Discuss mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] http://freeculture.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
