I have read a bunch of the email. I hope I didn't miss comprehensive errata… CC'ing Alastair since he is new here and has probably unsubscribed by now.
"Full keyboard access" mode is activated by cmd-f1
That would be Control-F1, but that is the default setting. I am suspicious that the ability to turn off the feature is new to a recent Tiger version. There was also a feature, inflated, by this name before Tiger. Links to the system files follow: file:///Library/Documentation/Help/VoiceOver.help/Contents/Resources/English.lproj/pgs/mh2042.html file:///library/documentation/help/machelp.help/contents/resources/english.lproj/pgs2/cdb_fkyacc.html If you go to System Preferences > Keyboard & Mouse > Keyboard Shortcuts (tab) at the bottom you will also find: Full keyboard access: In windows and dialogs, press Tab to move the keyboard focus between … to change this setting, press Control-F7. I don't know what Command-F1 does.
, and then allows you to use cmd-f2 & f3 to get to the menu bar and dock respectively.
Control-F2 for menu, Control-F3 for Dock
From memory it allows other things as well, such as improving the behavior of tab & arrows keys. It's in the mouse/keyboard settings.
There are a bunch of options, but it is not clear how they are effected by the Control-F1 toggle. Some things, like Command-Tab and Command-Accent always work. I have now managed to disable Control-F2 and Control-F3 and can't get that functionality back!
We did a lot of reading before the evaluation, the main item being
Did you keep this handy as a reference: http://home.adelphia.net/~bmss/vo/tigerkeys.html
Actually, with the documentation in front of me, I still can't find it! Sounds useful though, what do you mean by "vo-space"?
Please note that VO-space is *not* exactly the same thing as left click, which is VO-Shift-Space: Perform the default action for a selected item: Control-Option-Space bar. Click the item under the mouse: Control-Option-Shift-Space bar; Press once for a single mouse click and two times to double-click.
We did the evaluation over two evening, totaling about 10 hours
As others have pointed out, that may have not been enough time unless you were conversant with OS X before hand.
This was with an expert JAWs user (blind)
Again, as others have pointed out, you really want someone who is intimately familiar with more than one product. It is very difficult to sort out Windows prejudices. If one has dealt with multiple screen readers, preferably with on different operating systems, one can adapt to the Voice Over paradigms more easily. Some things are not as good as what one is used to with Jaws, but a good deal more are merely not the same.
Actually we really wanted to be successful using VO
One can be, just ask people on this list.
it would be great to say "just buy a mac mini, it's better and cheaper"
It really comes down to how locked down people are into their current software. That is true regardless if one uses a screen reader or not. I have not been able to switch at work because Entourage just doesn't do enough of the things Outlook does. Now, if I was not locked into my corporate email server, I would have real choice.
because I do believe the OS is better.
Right on!
It was keyboard access I have a problem with.
The keyboard access of Windows is nicer. One can tab and arrow key just about anywhere. Mac users are not used to the robust keyboard support which now exists and, unfortunately IMHO, one really needs the VO-arrow keys for *full* keyboard-only navigation. I am hoping Leopard allows navigating around the OS from the keyboard without the need to turn VoiceOver on. Cross your fingers.
I mean that basic things (like 'down' through content) are one keypress on most windows based screen readers. On Voiceover, most things are a three key (two-handed) combo.
In my experience, sighted people using JAWS usually try to use Windows without ever resorting to the Insert key. They are only pretending at using JAWS, but one can get away with that as it is easy to fool yourself. It is not possible to work OS X (beyond some trivial things) without a mouse without enabling VoiceOver (or Mouse Keys, I suppose).
Granted, Windows based screen readers have many large combo combinations as well, but the basics of navigation tend to be easier to learn for a newbie, and easier to do for the expert.
It is reasonably easy to find people, sighted and blind, who can run Windows without a mouse. That body of expertise simply doesn't exist for OS X. VoiceOver, unlike JAWS, is fully compatible with Sticky Keys, so it can be used with one hand. Once Léonie has been using VoiceOver for ten years, I bet she could be casually web surfing, while drinking tea, with it as well!
For example, anything that was control-option-x, becomes simply x.
As others have mentioned, one can lock down the VO keys. Works fine in read-only activities.
I haven't really thought that through specifically, but I'm sure things could be made easier.
This complaint was frequently brought up during the beta testing. The Apple representative were adament that Control-Option was the least compromised combination. None of the beta testers could ever come up with something better. Control is needed for all the Unix stuff. Option is used with all the extended characters. Command is used, well, for commands. Windows had a similar problem, which is why Henter Joyce turned the Insert key into a modifier key, but that decision comes with its own set of flaws. And then Microsoft went and added a Window key! Again, apologies if these comments are too redundant with the rest of the discussion.
