Re: n.f.b. ITunes investigation

[Dan Keys]

Hello,
I have been staying out of this thread for the most part, but now I  
need to express my feelings regarding the NFB. Yes, NFB should be  
doing this to anyone who is not complying with accessibility needs.  
After all, don't they claim to speak for all blind people? Double  
Standards I guess. Because, as far as I'm concerned, the NFB doesn't  
speak for me and others as well. Perhaps, that's because I don't pay  
them to do so. And at this point in time, I don't plan on making any  
contributions to them Nor in the foreseeable future either.
I guess the utopia would be that we all work together for the same  
thing, accessibility of as many applications as can be made accessible.
Dan
On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Shaun Jones wrote:

Understood, my point is that if they are fighting for accessibility  
then fight for it on all fronts not just the new company to sue this  
year.
On Jan 23, 2008, at 10:19 AM, Dennis Bartlett wrote:

I have made the following statement before and gotten in trouble  
for it.
NFB has bailed out at least one screen reader vendor before.  I'm  
sure this
is an attempt to cover at least that vendor's responsibility.   
Also, there
are scripts available for ITunes but they are  provided by a  
different
company.  Basically those who want those scripts are paying twice  
for them.
First of all I believe that FS contracted this company to write those
scripts as they have done with others so they were paid for this  
work. Then
the decision was made not to include them in the product but to  
allow this
company to market them on their own.



-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shaun Jones
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 10:07 AM
To: General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS  
X by the
blind
Subject: Re: n.f.b. ITunes investigation

Yeah, come to think about it. Why wont they sue Microsoft for not
making Office accessible on the Mac?
On Jan 23, 2008, at 9:46 AM, John Moore wrote:

This is typical NFB. Sue people to get wealth and glory. This is the
chance we need to get our message out about how horrible Microsoft  
and
there OS are.

On 1/23/08, Shaun Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
They have JAWS scripts for the Windows version which brings me to a
question. What isn't Apple doing that everyone else is? I ask that
because most applications for Windows need scripting and can't be  
re
written to work. Why don't they sue Skype or Microsoft for not  
making
Power Point fully accessible? I think all application developers  
need
to be made aware about accessibility and I feel it's our job, yes
that's right I said it's our job to make sure they know it. If we
don't in the end we all lose.
On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:00 AM, Dan Eickmeier wrote:

        I agree Shawn, makes me think that they really don't know what's
out there for us mac users, as far as accessibility, and all  
they're
focussing on is JAWS, and how things are on the windows side with
Itunes.  IN using the mac so far for a week, haven't played with
Itunes much yet, but I'm sure it's better than it is with JAWS and
windows.  I've definitely noticed that we've most certainly got
something as far as accessibility.  All I can say is, the Mac  
rocks,
and it is totally awesome.  O
It's rediculous that they're suing Apple for lac of accessibility.
Makes not one bit of sense
on 23-Jan-08, at 7:27 AM, Shaun Jones wrote:

They will not recommend a Apple to anyone needing accessibility  
but
they are willing to sue for the lack there of. That doesn't make
since. Can you give me the firm's number so we can talk lawyer
talk? I have seen more advancement in accessibility on the Mac in
the five months of using it than I have when using JAWS five thru
nine and they want to sue. Why not sue Freedom Scientific for not
having a one hundred percent accessible package given the time  
that
XP has been out. What are we talking here isn't it going on nine
years since the release of XP?Don't they hate Apple for lack of a
better word?
On Jan 22, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Jude DaShiell wrote:

I very much doubt the investigation will stop.  It's being  
done by
a law firm for one thing and they're professionals.  For  
another I
not only told them about this list and that it's high volume but
also that it's very helpful.  Those are not just N.F.B. hacks
doing the investigation.  They are interested in far more than
just Apple and iTunes too since I was asked some questions about
work too.  I was the first person they had talked to in two  
years
of work for the N.F.B. that had anything positive to say about
Apple.



On Sun, 23 Dec 2007, Shaun Jones wrote:

I too will run Windows as well as Linux on my Mac not because I
need to, but because the technology is there for me to do it. I
love anything that is accessible because it helps me become
better. If you need help don't hesitate to contact me off list.
On Dec 22, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Renee M Zelickson wrote:

Shawn I applaud you for geting on with all the voice over
commands quickly. I have to admit that although I haven't got
them all down and still a little mixed up and don't know how  
to
read all in a document yet, I have to say that the Mac is much
better than the PC.  I am only wanting to install windows for
the things I need to get done that I don't know how to do on  
the
mac
anyway, I am appauld but not surprised that the NFB is
"investigating" instead of trying to use.  I will say that the
Safare is not easy to navigate. but hopefully they will  
improve
it.
Renee Zelickson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Dec 22, 2007, at 1:57 AM, Shaun Jones wrote:
I agree with that.  I have done 10 times as much as I could  
do
on Windows > in 4 months of using the Mac. Just about every
software I have used has > been accessible through the menus,
GUI or both. I wonder what > conversations that FS or JAWS  
users
have had with Apple in this regards? > Probably none
On Dec 21, 2007, at 3:19 PM, Joshua Tubbs wrote:
I completely disagree with the action that NFB is taking!
While I've > > only had my Mac for almost a weak now, I hate  
the
NFB not attempting to > > even use a bloody Mac and see if  
it is
accessible. They just take jaws > > through it's paces because
they claim that it's the number one screen > > reader on the
planet. I'm sorry, but in terms of stabibility, learning, > >
etc, I think VoiceOver is the now number one screen reader.
Perhaps if > > Microsoft would take the steps that Apple  
takes,
jaws won't be needed > > If people are willing to take at  
least
two days out of there lives they > > could easily learn
VoiceOver. I started downloading skype the first > > time I  
got
my hands on this baby, so it's not like it's all that hard.  
> >
VoiceOver is so easy your grandmother could use it without
reading the > > manual. I haven't read the quick start  
tutorial
yet and I feel that I > > still have a lot to learn, but Apple
in my oppinion is way ahead of > > Microsoft.
That's my oppinion on the issue.
On Dec 21, 2007, at 12:26 PM, David Poehlman wrote:
I'd like to ask them to stop.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jude DaShiell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <discuss@macvisionaries.com>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 12:08 PM
Subject: n.f.b. ITunes investigation
A message was sent out on the electronics-talk
mailing list to the > > > effect
that all of ITunes is being investigated by the national
federation > > > of the
blind for accessibility.  Anyone wishing to provide
assistance can > > > contact
[EMAIL PROTECTED]














--
John Moore