I'm talking about blind people fighting among themselves instead of getting stuff donee.
On 1/23/08, Peter Apgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > True that!! Wow some one else who see's there ways. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Keys > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:44 PM > To: General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by > theblind > Subject: Re: n.f.b. ITunes investigation > > Hello, > I have been staying out of this thread for the most part, but now I need to > express my feelings regarding the NFB. Yes, NFB should be doing this to > anyone who is not complying with accessibility needs. > After all, don't they claim to speak for all blind people? Double Standards > I guess. Because, as far as I'm concerned, the NFB doesn't speak for me and > others as well. Perhaps, that's because I don't pay them to do so. And at > this point in time, I don't plan on making any contributions to them Nor in > the foreseeable future either. > I guess the utopia would be that we all work together for the same thing, > accessibility of as many applications as can be made accessible. > Dan > > On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Shaun Jones wrote: > > > Understood, my point is that if they are fighting for accessibility > > then fight for it on all fronts not just the new company to sue this > > year. > > On Jan 23, 2008, at 10:19 AM, Dennis Bartlett wrote: > > > >> I have made the following statement before and gotten in trouble for > >> it. > >> NFB has bailed out at least one screen reader vendor before. I'm > >> sure this > >> is an attempt to cover at least that vendor's responsibility. > >> Also, there > >> are scripts available for ITunes but they are provided by a > >> different company. Basically those who want those scripts are paying > >> twice for them. > >> First of all I believe that FS contracted this company to write those > >> scripts as they have done with others so they were paid for this > >> work. Then the decision was made not to include them in the product > >> but to allow this company to market them on their own. > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shaun Jones > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 10:07 AM > >> To: General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X > >> by the blind > >> Subject: Re: n.f.b. ITunes investigation > >> > >> Yeah, come to think about it. Why wont they sue Microsoft for not > >> making Office accessible on the Mac? > >> On Jan 23, 2008, at 9:46 AM, John Moore wrote: > >> > >>> This is typical NFB. Sue people to get wealth and glory. This is the > >>> chance we need to get our message out about how horrible Microsoft > >>> and there OS are. > >>> > >>> On 1/23/08, Shaun Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>>> They have JAWS scripts for the Windows version which brings me to a > >>>> question. What isn't Apple doing that everyone else is? I ask that > >>>> because most applications for Windows need scripting and can't be > >>>> re written to work. Why don't they sue Skype or Microsoft for not > >>>> making Power Point fully accessible? I think all application > >>>> developers need to be made aware about accessibility and I feel > >>>> it's our job, yes that's right I said it's our job to make sure > >>>> they know it. If we don't in the end we all lose. > >>>> On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:00 AM, Dan Eickmeier wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I agree Shawn, makes me think that they really don't know what's > >>>>> out there for us mac users, as far as accessibility, and all > >>>>> they're focussing on is JAWS, and how things are on the windows > >>>>> side with Itunes. IN using the mac so far for a week, haven't > >>>>> played with Itunes much yet, but I'm sure it's better than it is > >>>>> with JAWS and windows. I've definitely noticed that we've most > >>>>> certainly got something as far as accessibility. All I can say > >>>>> is, the Mac rocks, and it is totally awesome. O It's rediculous > >>>>> that they're suing Apple for lac of accessibility. > >>>>> Makes not one bit of sense > >>>>> on 23-Jan-08, at 7:27 AM, Shaun Jones wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> They will not recommend a Apple to anyone needing accessibility > >>>>>> but they are willing to sue for the lack there of. That doesn't > >>>>>> make since. Can you give me the firm's number so we can talk > >>>>>> lawyer talk? I have seen more advancement in accessibility on the > >>>>>> Mac in the five months of using it than I have when using JAWS > >>>>>> five thru nine and they want to sue. Why not sue Freedom > >>>>>> Scientific for not having a one hundred percent accessible > >>>>>> package given the time that XP has been out. What are we talking > >>>>>> here isn't it going on nine years since the release of XP?Don't > >>>>>> they hate Apple for lack of a better word? > >>>>>> On Jan 22, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Jude DaShiell wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I very much doubt the investigation will stop. It's being done > >>>>>>> by a law firm for one thing and they're professionals. For > >>>>>>> another I not only told them about this list and that it's high > >>>>>>> volume but also that it's very helpful. Those are not just > >>>>>>> N.F.B. hacks doing the investigation. They are interested in > >>>>>>> far more than just Apple and iTunes too since I was asked some > >>>>>>> questions about work too. I was the first person they had > >>>>>>> talked to in two years of work for the N.F.B. that had anything > >>>>>>> positive to say about Apple. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2007, Shaun Jones wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I too will run Windows as well as Linux on my Mac not because I > >>>>>>>> need to, but because the technology is there for me to do it. I > >>>>>>>> love anything that is accessible because it helps me become > >>>>>>>> better. If you need help don't hesitate to contact me off list. > >>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Renee M Zelickson wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Shawn I applaud you for geting on with all the voice over > >>>>>>>>> commands quickly. I have to admit that although I haven't got > >>>>>>>>> them all down and still a little mixed up and don't know how > >>>>>>>>> to read all in a document yet, I have to say that the Mac is > >>>>>>>>> much better than the PC. I am only wanting to install windows > >>>>>>>>> for the things I need to get done that I don't know how to do > >>>>>>>>> on the mac anyway, I am appauld but not surprised that the NFB > >>>>>>>>> is "investigating" instead of trying to use. I will say that > >>>>>>>>> the Safare is not easy to navigate. but hopefully they will > >>>>>>>>> improve it. > >>>>>>>>> Renee Zelickson > >>>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2007, at 1:57 AM, Shaun Jones wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> I agree with that. I have done 10 times as much as I could > >>>>>>>>>> do > >>>>>>>>> on Windows > in 4 months of using the Mac. Just about every > >>>>>>>>> software I have used has > been accessible through the menus, > >>>>>>>>> GUI or both. I wonder what > conversations that FS or JAWS > >>>>>>>>> users have had with Apple in this regards? > Probably none > >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2007, at 3:19 PM, Joshua Tubbs wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> I completely disagree with the action that NFB is taking! > >>>>>>>>> While I've > > only had my Mac for almost a weak now, I hate > >>>>>>>>> the NFB not attempting to > > even use a bloody Mac and see if > >>>>>>>>> it is accessible. They just take jaws > > through it's paces > >>>>>>>>> because they claim that it's the number one screen > > reader > >>>>>>>>> on the planet. I'm sorry, but in terms of stabibility, > >>>>>>>>> learning, > > etc, I think VoiceOver is the now number one > >>>>>>>>> screen reader. > >>>>>>>>> Perhaps if > > Microsoft would take the steps that Apple > >>>>>>>>> takes, jaws won't be needed > > If people are willing to take > >>>>>>>>> at least two days out of there lives they > > could easily > >>>>>>>>> learn VoiceOver. I started downloading skype the first > > > >>>>>>>>> time I got my hands on this baby, so it's not like it's all > >>>>>>>>> that hard. > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> VoiceOver is so easy your grandmother could use it without > >>>>>>>>> reading the > > manual. I haven't read the quick start > >>>>>>>>> tutorial yet and I feel that I > > still have a lot to learn, > >>>>>>>>> but Apple in my oppinion is way ahead of > > Microsoft. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That's my oppinion on the issue. > >>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2007, at 12:26 PM, David Poehlman wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to ask them to stop. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jude DaShiell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 12:08 PM > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: n.f.b. ITunes investigation > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A message was sent out on the electronics-talk > >>>>>>>>> mailing list to the > > > effect > >>>>>>>>>>>> that all of ITunes is being investigated by the national > >>>>>>>>> federation > > > of the > >>>>>>>>>>>> blind for accessibility. Anyone wishing to provide > >>>>>>>>> assistance can > > > contact > >>>>>>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> John Moore > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- John Moore
