True that!! Wow some one else who see's there ways. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Keys Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:44 PM To: General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X by theblind Subject: Re: n.f.b. ITunes investigation
Hello, I have been staying out of this thread for the most part, but now I need to express my feelings regarding the NFB. Yes, NFB should be doing this to anyone who is not complying with accessibility needs. After all, don't they claim to speak for all blind people? Double Standards I guess. Because, as far as I'm concerned, the NFB doesn't speak for me and others as well. Perhaps, that's because I don't pay them to do so. And at this point in time, I don't plan on making any contributions to them Nor in the foreseeable future either. I guess the utopia would be that we all work together for the same thing, accessibility of as many applications as can be made accessible. Dan On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Shaun Jones wrote: > Understood, my point is that if they are fighting for accessibility > then fight for it on all fronts not just the new company to sue this > year. > On Jan 23, 2008, at 10:19 AM, Dennis Bartlett wrote: > >> I have made the following statement before and gotten in trouble for >> it. >> NFB has bailed out at least one screen reader vendor before. I'm >> sure this >> is an attempt to cover at least that vendor's responsibility. >> Also, there >> are scripts available for ITunes but they are provided by a >> different company. Basically those who want those scripts are paying >> twice for them. >> First of all I believe that FS contracted this company to write those >> scripts as they have done with others so they were paid for this >> work. Then the decision was made not to include them in the product >> but to allow this company to market them on their own. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shaun Jones >> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 10:07 AM >> To: General discussions on all topics relating to the use of Mac OS X >> by the blind >> Subject: Re: n.f.b. ITunes investigation >> >> Yeah, come to think about it. Why wont they sue Microsoft for not >> making Office accessible on the Mac? >> On Jan 23, 2008, at 9:46 AM, John Moore wrote: >> >>> This is typical NFB. Sue people to get wealth and glory. This is the >>> chance we need to get our message out about how horrible Microsoft >>> and there OS are. >>> >>> On 1/23/08, Shaun Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> They have JAWS scripts for the Windows version which brings me to a >>>> question. What isn't Apple doing that everyone else is? I ask that >>>> because most applications for Windows need scripting and can't be >>>> re written to work. Why don't they sue Skype or Microsoft for not >>>> making Power Point fully accessible? I think all application >>>> developers need to be made aware about accessibility and I feel >>>> it's our job, yes that's right I said it's our job to make sure >>>> they know it. If we don't in the end we all lose. >>>> On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:00 AM, Dan Eickmeier wrote: >>>> >>>>> I agree Shawn, makes me think that they really don't know what's >>>>> out there for us mac users, as far as accessibility, and all >>>>> they're focussing on is JAWS, and how things are on the windows >>>>> side with Itunes. IN using the mac so far for a week, haven't >>>>> played with Itunes much yet, but I'm sure it's better than it is >>>>> with JAWS and windows. I've definitely noticed that we've most >>>>> certainly got something as far as accessibility. All I can say >>>>> is, the Mac rocks, and it is totally awesome. O It's rediculous >>>>> that they're suing Apple for lac of accessibility. >>>>> Makes not one bit of sense >>>>> on 23-Jan-08, at 7:27 AM, Shaun Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> They will not recommend a Apple to anyone needing accessibility >>>>>> but they are willing to sue for the lack there of. That doesn't >>>>>> make since. Can you give me the firm's number so we can talk >>>>>> lawyer talk? I have seen more advancement in accessibility on the >>>>>> Mac in the five months of using it than I have when using JAWS >>>>>> five thru nine and they want to sue. Why not sue Freedom >>>>>> Scientific for not having a one hundred percent accessible >>>>>> package given the time that XP has been out. What are we talking >>>>>> here isn't it going on nine years since the release of XP?Don't >>>>>> they hate Apple for lack of a better word? >>>>>> On Jan 22, 2008, at 8:25 PM, Jude DaShiell wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I very much doubt the investigation will stop. It's being done >>>>>>> by a law firm for one thing and they're professionals. For >>>>>>> another I not only told them about this list and that it's high >>>>>>> volume but also that it's very helpful. Those are not just >>>>>>> N.F.B. hacks doing the investigation. They are interested in >>>>>>> far more than just Apple and iTunes too since I was asked some >>>>>>> questions about work too. I was the first person they had >>>>>>> talked to in two years of work for the N.F.B. that had anything >>>>>>> positive to say about Apple. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2007, Shaun Jones wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I too will run Windows as well as Linux on my Mac not because I >>>>>>>> need to, but because the technology is there for me to do it. I >>>>>>>> love anything that is accessible because it helps me become >>>>>>>> better. If you need help don't hesitate to contact me off list. >>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Renee M Zelickson wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Shawn I applaud you for geting on with all the voice over >>>>>>>>> commands quickly. I have to admit that although I haven't got >>>>>>>>> them all down and still a little mixed up and don't know how >>>>>>>>> to read all in a document yet, I have to say that the Mac is >>>>>>>>> much better than the PC. I am only wanting to install windows >>>>>>>>> for the things I need to get done that I don't know how to do >>>>>>>>> on the mac anyway, I am appauld but not surprised that the NFB >>>>>>>>> is "investigating" instead of trying to use. I will say that >>>>>>>>> the Safare is not easy to navigate. but hopefully they will >>>>>>>>> improve it. >>>>>>>>> Renee Zelickson >>>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2007, at 1:57 AM, Shaun Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I agree with that. I have done 10 times as much as I could >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> on Windows > in 4 months of using the Mac. Just about every >>>>>>>>> software I have used has > been accessible through the menus, >>>>>>>>> GUI or both. I wonder what > conversations that FS or JAWS >>>>>>>>> users have had with Apple in this regards? > Probably none >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2007, at 3:19 PM, Joshua Tubbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I completely disagree with the action that NFB is taking! >>>>>>>>> While I've > > only had my Mac for almost a weak now, I hate >>>>>>>>> the NFB not attempting to > > even use a bloody Mac and see if >>>>>>>>> it is accessible. They just take jaws > > through it's paces >>>>>>>>> because they claim that it's the number one screen > > reader >>>>>>>>> on the planet. I'm sorry, but in terms of stabibility, >>>>>>>>> learning, > > etc, I think VoiceOver is the now number one >>>>>>>>> screen reader. >>>>>>>>> Perhaps if > > Microsoft would take the steps that Apple >>>>>>>>> takes, jaws won't be needed > > If people are willing to take >>>>>>>>> at least two days out of there lives they > > could easily >>>>>>>>> learn VoiceOver. I started downloading skype the first > > >>>>>>>>> time I got my hands on this baby, so it's not like it's all >>>>>>>>> that hard. >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> VoiceOver is so easy your grandmother could use it without >>>>>>>>> reading the > > manual. I haven't read the quick start >>>>>>>>> tutorial yet and I feel that I > > still have a lot to learn, >>>>>>>>> but Apple in my oppinion is way ahead of > > Microsoft. >>>>>>>>>>>>> That's my oppinion on the issue. >>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2007, at 12:26 PM, David Poehlman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to ask them to stop. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jude DaShiell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 12:08 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: n.f.b. ITunes investigation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A message was sent out on the electronics-talk >>>>>>>>> mailing list to the > > > effect >>>>>>>>>>>> that all of ITunes is being investigated by the national >>>>>>>>> federation > > > of the >>>>>>>>>>>> blind for accessibility. Anyone wishing to provide >>>>>>>>> assistance can > > > contact >>>>>>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> John Moore >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > >
