Well said, Scott. And I, too, have written to Apple with suggestions,
but keep in mind, it is good public relations, to acknowledge the
improvements Apple has made; they want to know that we are taking
advantage of the improvements sent to us through their updates. I look
forward to an accessible iPhone in the near futur. Richie Gardenhire,
Anchorage, Alaska.e
Original message:
Oh, I take exception to some of your comments. You are saying that
Apple is lax about accessibility of software that is important to
those entering into the workforce or wish to use the Mac for more um
serious tasks. Well just because iTunes and the iPod were one of the
greatest accomplishments most recently, does not mean that Apple is
lax or does not clearly understand the importance to blind or any
other disabled group when it comes to computers. I think you are quite
incorrect. You seem to have missed the fact that a considerably large
number of people were screaming like hell to make iTunes accessible
and Apple did just that. YOu also need to consider that perhaps iTunes
was actually easier to make accessible so it was done first, but then
wait, lets not forget iCal which is much better than it was under
Tiger. It's quite possible that iWorks will be made accessible very
soon and of course like anything else, it'll be partly based on how
many are yelling for it and how much development time it'll take. You
need to keep things in perspective. Now just so we're clear, I'm not
completely defending Apple, I have been on their case many a time
about this issue alone. I have a considerable steak in this because I
wish to move from the windows platform to the Mac, but until there's
an alternative to MS Office, I'm stuck. So, actually Apple is very
much committed and working hard toward the goal of making iWorks and
other apps accessible, have no doubt on this.
On Nov 4, 2008, at 6:43 PM, Simon Cavendish wrote:
What is now crucial to Apple's efforts regarding Voiceover is
improvements to their Iworks and similar pieces of software. I have
already e-mailed Apple Accessibility on a few occasions with the
view to impressing on Apple the importance of making Iworks fully
accessible to visually impaired users if they were to continue in
their ambition to becoming a leading source of adaptive technology
for blind and visually impaired users. I pointed out to Apple in my
communications that the visually impaired users who are increasingly
aspire to entering a working environment will not be able to switch
to Mac operating system unless they can be confident that Mac os can
support their word processing and office related applications. This
is not a luxury option for Apple but an absolute must. Most colleges
and related schemes that enable visually impaired people to enter
the world of work are focused on Windows and the third party very
expensive adaptive technology related to Microsoft and their
satillite businesses like Freedom Scientific or Dollphin. I despair
of the fact that Apple seems to be so relaxed about it. I feel that
they are relaxed about it because they have not so far made Iworks
fully accessible to visually impaired user. Nor have they fully
realised how important computers are to blind people, and visually
impaired individuals' ambitions to live as complete a live as
possible. I think it is one of the gravest mistakes of Mac and
therefore I fear that they may lose the argument regarding which
system is being chosen by necessity by a visually impaired user. I
know of blind people who have been staunch supporters of Mac, having
to switch to Windows in order to be able to work. Apple is being
very lax about addressing this issue. Computers are fun but
accessibility to Itunes or an ipod is not going to be enough to
persuade a blind job seeker to buy a Mac computer. I don't know
what else I can do to impress upon Apple the importance of the needs
of a blind job seekr or student. Apple does not seem to take on
board the fact that most job seekrs and students receive state
assistance to purchase adaptive technology for which they are being
assessed by a rather undiscerning group of individuals. (I emphasise
absolutely here the word "assessed" because this is the reality.
Blind people are assessed regarding their computer and adaptive
technology needs by other non-disabled people who have no knowledge
of Mac os or Voiceover.) These individuals are going to be more
likely to be pursuaded by Microsoft related products, not by Apple
unless Apple takes a positive stance on their proprietary office
relatedsoftware. Indeed, if I were advising a blind job seeker as to
which operating system to go for, I would have to - breaking my
heart of course - say that they would be better off buying a
Windows computer with Jaws. Isn't it just horrendously painful for
me who has spent well-nigh 2 thousand quid to support Apple and
enjoy their technology? Forgive a sarcastic note here. I therefore
rest my case and upon Apple's head be it. If they want to entertain
only, they will find themselves in the minority market. They miss
the very serious point of the predicament a blind person faces,
i.e. work or not to work. Or rather, what is gonna make it easier
for me as a blind person to work or not to work. I don't have to
tell anyone on the list that to work means to have a choice because
work produces money and money in the world that we have created
gives man a choice. Like it or not, this is how it is.
I don't know how these things are in the US but in Britain, all the
government agencies are focused entirely on Microsoft and its
satellites like Jaws and Hal. Apple is being very inprudent in not
listening to the feedback that I and others have provided it with.
The Market place is what it is, i.e. cut-throat. I have done my best
to make them aware of these issues. More than this I cannot do. It
absolutely baffles me why it is that Iworks is still inaccessible to
blind users. In my experience of the work place, employers are
mostly interested in wheter a blind person can use Ms Office or not.
What can a blind person say at the job interview? "I'm sorry, sir,
I'm waiting for Apple to get their act together". Smile bitterly and
let's hope for the future. Employers are not easily persuaded of a
blind applicant's ability to do the job at the best of times. Unless
a job seeker can confidently say, "I can do so and so using a
computer," forget it. I 0am not talking rubbish. In 2001-2 I was
one of the researchers responsible for the writing and delivery of a
report on "Disability and Employment in Wales", and I spoke to many
blind and other disabled people regarding their experiences of the
work place. I also did a very indepth research of the issues for the
purpose of the research. I am not likely to be unduly emotional on
this subject. The legitimate emotionalism belongs to all those who
have struggled and failed to secure employment of whom I have met
plenty. My thoughts are still with them.
Just for the record, I'm not being bitter or unkind towards Apple.
I'm just baffled by their inability to understand what the their
advantage might be in the market. I'm also sad because Apple has
made an ethical choice to include a blind user on a sort of equal
footing in their technology in that I can now go to PcWorld and use
a mac computer on the display stand. All I'm saying is that this is
not going to be enough for Apple to move into a dominant position in
the job market for visually impaired computer user/employee. Apple
needs to understand its business potential when it comes to
Voiceover. Unless they realise that blind people have ambitions not
only to play with computers and the internet but also absolutely
rely for their livelihoods and the quality of their lives on a
computer, Apple will not move ahead of Microsoft.
I've said enough, and I hope I have said it in a non-confrontational
manner. I don't mean to cause offence. I mean to inspire thought and
reflection.
With best wishes
Simon
On 4 Nov 2008, at 14:04, Fonzie wrote:
Hi all, how are you doing?
Scott, this is true. Universal Access is being tested.
Accessibility at apple is thanks to that, along with other
developers they have testing the update.
Take care
Fonzie
On Nov 4, 2008, at 3:58 AM, Scott Howell wrote:
Oh I disagree with you, people are testing universal access across
the board.
On Nov 4, 2008, at 12:26 AM, Fonzie wrote:
Hi all, how goes it?
Mike, in my original post, I made a mention to OSX 10.5.6 and
what the current findings were. Currently, the mentioned
findings do not mention anything about VoiceOver.
As mentioned before, people are not usually testing VoiceOver, at
least not to my knowledge. A good example is in the last update
to Leopard. OSX 10.5.5. There was no mention in the release
notes to the speech dictionary being modified. OSX 10.5.3 had a
huge release for VoiceOver, and that seemed to be announced under
the findings when it was seeded.
Chris, remember, these are incramental updates to the current OS,
which is leopard, or OSX 10.5. Any improvements to the OS, both
benefits us and everyone else. If they make additions to
VoiceOver or modifications, we likely will not know until we
actually make the upgrade, or unless there is an actual
announcement for it.
As for the new OS you spoke of Chris, Snow Leopard is going to be
written in Coco. It is worth mentioning that VoiceOver is
written in Coco, meaning that changes done to the for Snow
Leopard, meaning, OSX 10.6, will benefit VoiceOver in the long run.
I do not see apple dropping support for VoiceOver, especially
since they are spending the time to provide accessibility to
everybody, both blind and or sighted, and who are also trying to
further their attempts at making so everyone can use the OS.
Take care.
Fonzie
On Nov 3, 2008, at 6:29 PM, Babcock, Michael Alex wrote:
what bought up the no voiceover topic? I might have missed
something
On Nov 3, 2008, at 3:26 PM, Scott Howell wrote:
Chris, please, Apple really would never shoot themselves in the
foot in this way. Hell I can't imagine any company spending
that much money on R&D to then just toss it in the trash. The
other person who responded is correct in it would be a P R
nightmare as well. VoiceOver is here to stay and I assure you
that Apple has no plans to stop development anytime soon.
On Nov 3, 2008, at 6:19 PM, Chris Gilland wrote:
I hope to God that Voiceover will be a part of the new OS. If
not, then I will unfortunately lose all respect for Apple.
Chris.
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Fonzie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "General discussions on all topics relating to the use of
Mac OS X by theblind" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: Mac OSX 10.5.6 and OSX Snow Leopard
Hi all, ho are you doing?
While looking up the mentioned subject line, I thought I
would provide a link to some of hte seed notes for OSX
10.5.6. Here it is. It is interesting, but I yet do not see
anything involving VoiceOver. To be fair, people are not
usually testing VoiceOver, and with hte exception of 10.5.3,
it may or may not be public at it's release. You should
find them interesting all the same.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mac-OS-X-10-5-6-9G21-Seed-Notes-Out-96638.shtml
On 10.6 Snow Leopard, I have found only the following.
Currently, from what I can see, the finder window is now
completely written in coco. The entire OS is supposed to be
written in coco, so that is always good to hear. we really
won't know it's entirety until it is actually released, but
little tid bits or nice here and there.
Take care all.
Fonzie
Scott Howell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Michael Babcock, owner of
http://gwhosting.net
Check out my blog at:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/GwNetworks
twitter at: http://twitter.com/creepyblindy
and brightkite at: http://brightkite.com/people/creepyblindy
Scott Howell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Scott Howell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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