Mathias Bauer wrote:
[snip: deployment should be easy]
End users should use the package manager dialog. I can't see a big barrier here, though of course UI is always a matter of taste.
When I wrote my first macros, that package manager didn't exist. So that was my experience. That if I wanted to deploy the add-on, I would have to get people to install it "by hand", and that would be difficult for the average end user.
Just now, when you told me, was the first time I heard of the new package manager. I'm very excited about it. I hope it turns out well. My life is a bit crazy right now, but I'll be sure to look at it later. I have high hopes for it.
I prefer the way Ooo and Thunderbird use: use a dialog with a file selector.
Either is fine for an end user. My experience with deployment was using the command-line tools. /That/ is what I was talking about (because that's all I knew when I wrote my email).
but IMHO primarily easy deployment means that it should be doable with small effort, powerful, safe and reversible.
I had a very hard time trying to figure out how pkgchk worked and how I could use it (as an add-on developer). Could you point me to the clearest documentation you know that explains how to use it? Remember that though I "know how to program" I am at the amateur level.
Btw, I totally see your point about being safe and reversible. I've never argued against it.
Maybe you asked the wrong people? Sorry, I don't know whom you asked, but I'm sure that I could have explained it to you in a few minutes.
It's always possible that I asked the wrong people. I would love to try a simple add-on right now, but I fear I have so little time... Maybe if you can show me a hello-world example? I don't want to lose this opportunity to learn how to make an OOo add-on.
No, look, one of the things I liked most about it was how quickly I could learn it. In spite of very poor documentation, by just guessing I was able to write an interesting GUI in a very short time.
Maybe you have another approach, but I usually want to understand the background of what I'm doing, and it took me several weeks to get into the Mozilla stuff.
Yes, I'm different. I prefer to dive in and start writing something simple quickly ("learn by doing"). I will happily spend a couple of days reading the background. But I wouldn't have the patience to spend a month doing that.
So perhaps I should change my statement: it's easier and faster for starters to hack some XUL stuff than it is to hack some OOo stuff, but if you want to become a part of the development, you have to learn a lot in both cases.
So the OOo development obviously has a steeper learning curve, right? You see, the word "easy" is not sharp defined enough to avoid misunderstandings.
Yes, I think that's what I mean. XUL was an easier learning curve. I could have "something" done very quickly, and I could learn gradually.
This is also why I'm keen on add-ons. Because they could be a stepping stone towards development.
OOo also build on concepts a lot of people know. Unfortunately those are other people than you are referring to, most of them have a lot of experience in development.
Okay. I guess that I can't help being biased by my situation. I am a technical person, who has programmed a little, but has minimal experience with develoment.
I hope that I have made clear that this wasn't my intent. And I already agreed that we have a documentation problem. My point always was that I don't agree that deploying OOo extension is hard.
I'd be interested to learn. Like I said, this is a bad time for me. If I can't learn right now, I'll come back and ask again when I can afford the time. But if there is a very simple "hello world" example I could look at I would love to see it.
Cheers, Daniel.
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