You won't be disappointed with ColdBox. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Clarke Bishop <[email protected]>wrote:
> Thanks Teddy and Tom for your ideas! > > > > I watched another one of Charlie’s CFMeetup preso’s – This one by Isaac > Dealy. The topic was: Comparing CF Frameworks, a practical demonstration. > > https://admin.na3.acrobat.com/_a204547676/p54833624/ > > http://on.tapogee.com/galleonproject/index.html > > > > Isaac is the author of onTap, but he does a good job of disclosing his > bias! He took Ray Camden’s Galleon project and ported it to all the main > frameworks. > > > > I thought he made several excellent points: > > · It’s more important to pick a framework (any framework) than > which framework you pick! > > · The frameworks are more similar than different. And, once you’ve > learned any framework, it’s easier to learn another one. This means don’t > worry too much about how long the framework will be around! > > · Good ideas introduced in one framework are usually quickly > copied by the others. > > · Charlie did a poll and about half of the audience used one or > more frameworks. The other half didn’t. > > · Teddy’s advice to build an app in several frameworks is the best > practice. But, this is very hard and time consuming for someone like me who > has a steep learning curve to go down. This is why Isaac did the comparison > for us. He really did a great job of covering the similarities and > difference between the frameworks (See the URL above). > > > > Based on the preso’s I’ve watched and my research, I think I should take my > best guess and just pick a framework. Once I’ve gone a ways down the > learning curve, maybe I’ll try some of the others. > > > > Tom said, Model-Glue feels more comfortable than Mach-II. And it looks that > way to me, too. > > > > But, unless one of you says “Oh My, that’s a big mistake!”, I’m going to > start with ColdBox. Why? > > · ColdBox has really great documentation, and I think that will be > a big advantage in learning it. > > · They seem to have a nice layout manager for the views. The way > they did this makes some sense to me. > > · They give you some useful plug-ins and tools. It looks like they > are trying to save me time and make development easier. > > · They have a nice proxy that lets you access the framework via > Flex (I know, some of the others have this too, but theirs looks easier to > use). > > · It’s an MVC framework and seems to be mainstream with > substantial support behind it. > > > > I’m also taking Teddy’s advice and I’ve signed up for the ColdBox eMail > list. > > > > I’ll keep you posted on my progress! > > > > Clarke > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Teddy R. > Payne > *Sent:* Sunday, July 19, 2009 4:53 PM > > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework > > > > Clarke, > You have established some criteria in your decision already. You are > looking for an MVC framework in ColdFusion. > > - Mach-II <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach-II> A framework that > focuses on trying to ease software development and maintenance > - Model-Glue <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-Glue> Through a simple > implementation of Implicit Invocation and Model–View–Controller, they allow > applications to be well organized without sacrificing flexibility. > - Fusebox <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusebox_%28programming%29>Fusebox > does not force the Model–View–Controller (MVC) pattern or > Object-Oriented Programming (OOP) on the developer. However, either or both > of these development approaches can be used with Fusebox. > - PureMVC <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PureMVC> Framework for > ColdFusion > - > Coldbox<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Coldbox&action=edit&redlink=1>is > an event-driven conventions based MVC ColdFusion Framework with an > extensive array of patterns for its operations such as Factories, Helpers, > Workers, etc. > - Switchboard <http://switchboard.riaforge.org/> is a MVC framework > with built in authentication, redirecting, and URL routing. > > The above was pulled from wikipedia on the MVC design pattern. > > The longevity of any given open source software is not a constant and can > be unpredictable. I have no knowledge on Switchboard and I am not sure on > the longevity of PureMVC. > > Your approach to learn what is involved in an MVC framework probably should > probably have two approaches: Design Pattern understanding and Practical > usage. > > I would suggest learning the practical usage first with each of the > frameworks that make your "cut". I would choose two or three at max. > Establish what features that you can leverage from each framework. I like > to look at things like how easy is it to incorporate other technologies into > the framework. > > Aside from a feature list, perform a "Pet Store" project in each > framework. By "Pet Store", learn how to create a form, submit a form, > create a model layer for the forms without using built in features like > scaffolding. How hard is it to track the data through the framework? How > quickly can you learn where to make the changes for a form submission? > > The Design Pattern approach can occur after you make your decision based > upon practical usage. Learn what the vernacular means. What parts of the > design pattern are present in your chosen framework? > > You ask the group for their collective interpretation, but most of this is > your study of the pattern and how a given framework works for you. You know > your aptitude more than us and you know what problems you are trying to > solve. > > > Teddy R. Payne, ACCFD > Google Talk - [email protected] > > > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Clarke Bishop <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Thanks guys! > > > > I know that for some people choosing a framework becomes a religious > question. I started to say something about this in my original message. > Instead, I listed some requirements: > > · An MVC framework (Therefore, no Fusebox). The others are more > object oriented. > > · Helps expand my understanding and won’t quickly become obsolete. > > > · Being easier to learn and get started with. > > > > I also have a lot of respect for all the ACFUG members. So, if there’s > already an ACFUG consensus, I’d rather go in that direction. > > > > Charlie, I think I remember asking you before if you focused on a specific > framework, and you said “No”. Doug’s been in Flex land, and I also had > Timothy’s question whether CF9 changes anything with its built-in hibernate. > > > > > I’d love to hear from anyone who recently has been using one of these > frameworks. What do you think might be best for me? > > > > Thanks again! > > > > Clarke > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Douglas > Knudsen > *Sent:* Saturday, July 18, 2009 11:03 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework > > > > What did I hear fusebox compared to recently on twitter....hmmmm. Coldbox > sounds promising, it showed up whilst I was away in Flex land. Seems to me, > without fanning flames, mach-ii, coldbox, or model glue will be handy dandy > to learn. The principles learned in either of these will apply in the > future as well as today. Fusebox I would not say that about. > > > > Douglas Knudsen > http://www.cubicleman.com > this is my signature, like it? > > On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Charlie Arehart <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Uh, here it comes, the annual framework debate. :-) I’m only joking, > Clarke. It’s a reasonable question. > > > > The good news is that you will indeed get opinions. You’ll just have to > sift through them. I think the problem with the discussion is that there’s > no one good answer. As with so many things, it depends: on yourself, fellow > developers (and indeed if there are any), what you do and don’t know about > frameworks and patterns in general, how much you’ll be able to reuse the > framework (and the knowledge gained getting comfortable), how much time you > have, how much you want to be able (or may have to) to contribute to it, and > so many other attributes. > > > > Besides the big 4 (mach ii, model-glue, fusebox, and coldbox), there are > indeed many more. Another that may suit you getting started is cfwheels. I > list all the CFML frameworks (that I’ve found) at my CF411 site: > > > > http://www.cf411.com/#cffw > > > > (Actually, I break it into 3 categories: Application, injection, and ORM > frameworks.) > > > > I’ll note that we’ve had talks on ColdBox on the meetup before. Check out > all past recordings at recordings.coldfusionmeetup.com. > > > > There was also an issue of the FusionAuthority Quarterly Update that tried > to review the top frameworks (Vol II Issue II, Fall 2006), which while a bit > dated may still be helpful. There was also an effort some years ago at > trying to create a repository of one example app built in many frameworks: > http://www.cfpetmarket.com/. It didn’t really take off, but it’s worth > considering in your evaluation effort. > > > > Let’s see what others say in general. > > > > /charlie > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Clarke > Bishop > *Sent:* Saturday, July 18, 2009 6:00 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [ACFUG Discuss] Learning a ColdFusion Framework > > > > OK, I’ve finally decided to really learn a ColdFusion framework! But which > one? > > > > I watched a presentation Sean Corfield did for BACFUG (I found this on > Charlie’s UGTV): > > https://admin.na3.acrobat.com/_a204547676/p71922816/ > > > > I think Mach-II is harder to learn and I don’t need it’s capabilities. So, > I crossed Mach-II off my list. > > > > Before I watched Sean’s presentation, I was thinking Model-Glue was the > right one to learn. It seems like I’ve heard more of you talking about > Model-Glue than the others. > > > > But, in Sean’s presentation, ColdBox seemed like it might be a good choice, > too. It seems to have very good documentation which would help me get down > the learning curve. > > > > What do you guys think? Is there any other mainstream framework I should > look at? > > > > I want to learn how to effectively use an MVC framework, and I want to pick > something that will expand my understanding and won’t be obsolete next year. > Other than that, being easiest to learn is probably most important. > > > > Thanks for your ideas! > > > > Clarke > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform<http://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform> > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > List hosted by FusionLink <http://www.fusionlink.com/> > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform<http://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform> > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > List hosted by FusionLink <http://www.fusionlink.com/> > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform<http://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform> > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > List hosted by FusionLink <http://www.fusionlink.com/> > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ > http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform<http://www.acfug.org/?fa=login.edituserform> > > For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists > Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ > List hosted by FusionLink <http://www.fusionlink.com/> > ------------------------------------------------------------- >
