If you at least don’t separate all variables that are dependent on the environment from the settings.py, then you’re going to have to edit your settings.py file anyways, defeating the purpose of this. Database and Cache connection settings are clearly dependent on the environment.
-bobby > On Jun 25, 2020, at 1:51 PM, Kit La Touche <kit.l...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Wow, `distutils.util.strtobool` is great to know about! > > So, can we refocus this conversation? This is starting to look like previous > conversations on this topic, which pull in a lot of possibilities but don't > lead to a change. How do we go about generating a DEP or other > consensus-building tool on what we want here? > > It seems to me this conversation has historically gotten stuck by trying to > bite off a bigger bite. Therefore, I would recommend a minimal change that > gestures towards the direction we want to explore. > > Personally, I think that at minimum providing Django-builtin "get from env" > helpers would be great; beyond that, I'd love to have them be included around > `DEBUG` and `SECRET_KEY` with the current values as defaults, so they're > optional. Once we see how this gets used, we can see about passing it a file > instead of `os.environ`, or borrowing other ideas from any of the various > supporting projects that have been suggested. > > It's clear that different people have different use-cases and different > needs, but regardless, I think that it's clear also that including values > like DEBUG and SECRET_KEY as hard coded values in settings by default does > not point people towards good practices. What "good practices" are is likely > to differ in each person's case, but I think that suggesting one option > (again, my vote is "look in the environment") will at least help newer devs > understand that this is a topic they should learn more about. > > Thanks, > > --Kit > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:16 AM Javier Buzzi <buzzi.jav...@gmail.com > <mailto:buzzi.jav...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Hi Bobby, yes, thank you, this looks around the line of what i would like us > to implement in Django. > > Side note: i saw this config('DEBUG', default=False, cast=bool) and thought > "there is NO WAY that works", that led me to from distutils.util import > strtobool, absolute mind blown! Thanks! > > -Buzzi > > On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 1:03:19 PM UTC-4, Bobby Mozumder wrote: > There’s also python-decouple that I use that I haven’t seen mentioned in this > thread. It lets you set specific environment variables in a separate .env > file or INI file: https://github.com/henriquebastos/python-decouple > <https://github.com/henriquebastos/python-decouple> > > -bobby > >> On Jun 25, 2020, at 4:47 AM, Javier Buzzi <buzzi...@gmail.com <>> wrote: >> >> Hey Tom, cool project haven't heard of it, looks to me more inline with >> validating and converting user input from an api/form. I could really see >> myself using this in my personal projects, however this looks like we'd be >> going back to the class based configuration that im trying to avoid. >> Nonetheless thank you for the share! >> >> - Buzzi >> >> On Thursday, June 25, 2020 at 4:34:11 AM UTC-4, Tom Carrick wrote: >> Javier, I just wanted to point out another option for configuration: >> pydantic <https://pydantic-docs.helpmanual.io/> - it offers a very slick and >> intuitive interface for settings management across environments, seamless >> handing of environment variables by using type hints, and so on. I wouldn't >> recommend it for anything other than large sites with complex >> configurations, but it does work well for those, once you grapple with how >> to integrate it with django's settings so they're all exposed as >> `settings.FOO`, and so on. >> >> I don't think I would want to integrate anything like this into Django >> proper, but it might deserve a mention in the documentation. >> >> Tom >> >> On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 at 23:52, Javier Buzzi <buzzi...@gmail.com <>> wrote: >> This makes sense, I have a project that has a lot of settings files that get >> activated depending on the value of DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE. The solution i >> outlined above takes your reservations under consideration, if you want to >> use it, great, if not also great -- its a supplement not a requirement. >> >> - Buzzi >> >> On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 5:24:35 PM UTC-4, Dan Davis wrote: >> tMost of the world is not as seamless as heroku. My DevOps won't give me >> any more than a handful of environment variables. I wanted something like >> DATABASE_URL, but all I have is DJANGO_LOG_DIR and DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE, >> and so I need many, many settings files. I think that happens a lot, and >> maybe a common pattern. >> >> From a 12factor perspective, I would like to get it down to local settings >> (development) and production settings - yet for a lot of users, DevOps is >> not really supporting a full PaaS-like experience any way. >> >> So - all of this has to be optional, which seems to rule out making it part >> of the starting project template. For sure, I've got my personal template, >> and work has an on-premise template and a Cloud template as well - but the >> department of developers doesn't always use these. I find databases >> containing the tables for other projects, long after the models and >> migrations are gone, indicating a start by copy mode. >> >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 1:35 PM Kit La Touche <kit...@gmail.com <>> wrote: >> Carlton—thanks very much for the feedback. Javier—likewise. In particular, >> the imagined API you describe above is very appealing to me: start with >> `from_env` and then if you learn more about this and want to, add in some >> `EnvFileLoader`. >> >> I want to make clear my motivation and agenda here: I have recently had some >> conversations with newer devs about their experiences with deployment of >> apps they're working on, and with a friend at Heroku about his informal >> research into the problems people have with the same. One recurring friction >> point (and this is not just on Heroku at all, to be clear) is that there are >> a number of things that people don't know they need to configure for a >> working deployment. >> >> There are four settings that are recurring particular gotchas that people >> miss: the secret key, debug, static files, and databases. Static files seems >> big and out of scope, databases seems adequately handled by dj-database-url >> for most cases, and if your case is more complex, you'll learn it, but the >> other two (secret key and debug) seemed easy enough to flag as "you probably >> need to configure these!" with this sort of change to settings. This would >> be a first step towards shortening the distance from `startproject` to a >> working deployment. >> >> Newer devs in particular have, based on my conversations and this friend's >> research, been unlikely to (a) know that there are different `startproject` >> templates, and (b) feel equipped to choose one, if they do know. >> >> My hope is to make the smallest possible change to just start us moving >> towards more clearly flagging, especially for newer devs, "these are things >> that will need additional configuration in order to move from 'works on my >> machine' to 'deployed'." >> >> Towards that end, I thought that adding a "you might want to get this from >> the env" helper would be a clear indication to a new dev that this is a >> matter to even consider. Adding other configuration-getting options like >> different secret-store file backends seems like a good next step. >> >> Thanks, >> >> --Kit >> >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 11:13 AM Javier Buzzi <buzzi...@gmail.com <>> wrote: >> I looked at the libs that do what we want: >> >> django-configurations - it looks like they use environment variables / >> either via loading them from the environ or a key/value pair file. Having >> classes inside the settings.py might be weird to people.. at the least very >> different. >> confucius - very simplistic, only supports environ and is classed based, >> similar to django-configurations. >> django-environ - supports env file and environ, non-class based. >> dynaconf - supports all kinds of loading options (toml, json, ini, environ, >> .env +) non-class based. >> >> In my opinion, django-environ and dynaconf would be the easiest to sell to >> the community, it would require the least changes/paradigm shifts from how >> everyone is already using django. >> >> Personally, i would really like to see something like this inside my >> settings.py: >> >> from django.conf import from_env # using standard os.environ >> >> DEBUG = from_env.bool("DEBUG", default=False) >> >> DATABASES = { >> "default": from_env.db("DATABASE_URL") # crash if it cant find it >> } >> >> ... >> >> for more complex examples: >> >> from django.conf import EnvFileLoader >> >> from_env = EnvFileLoader("path/to/.secret") >> >> ... >> >> We can have how ever many loaders we want: toml, json, ini .. >> >> This is both borrowing heavily from dynaconf and django-environ, making the >> fewest changes to how people are accustomed to doing things. >> >> .. what do you guys think? 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