You present interesting issues. Many thanks
Kurt On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 11:28 PM Laurie Hoffman via dog < [email protected]> wrote: > Good question Kurt and one we would have all thought about at some time. > > Would depend on a number of variables. Given the width of the Dimona > canopy the probability of wiping out the tailplane on jettising would have > to be high let alone balance issues Andrew mentioned. > > Windspeed in the cockpit wouldn't help either. I remember the blast in the > cockpit when flying the Blanik without the canopy all those years ago > (sorry Andrew!). > > So I think I'd only do so if I was suffocating and/or burning, not while > still able. > > Nigel, Andrew or anyone else aware of any other in flight jettison events? > > I was going to suggest throwing the canopy as soon as you can free your > hands to do so on the landing roll but on second thoughts you would then be > more greatly exposed to the effects of the fire while still moving. > > Would a severe ground loop on touch down assist directing heat and smoke > away from the cockpit and drastically shorten the landing roll? > > Laurie > > > > Sent from Yahoo7 Mail on Android > <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature> > > On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 10:20 am, Andrew Simpson via dog > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Kurt, > > > > I performed the investigation on the latest fire in Australia, it’s a > double edged sword the jettisoning of the canopy can have the effect of > fanning the existing fire and making the situation worse. In the Ximango > event the partial deployment of the canopy allowed the flames to lick up > the fuselage side and affect the cockpit (Side slipping played an important > part in the pilot walking away in this event). > > > > The canopy jettison has the potential to affect the cg and potential > damage to structure if not a clean departure from the aircraft. > > > > I know of a few TMG pilots that have been involved in the 3 fire events in > Australia that are seriously considering using parachutes and jumping in > the case of a fire event. > > > > On a side note the GFA is working on an AD to apply Firefree 88 to the > cowls and engine bay on motor gliders with repeat inspections at each form > 2. Background is to provide more time for the pilot to get the aircraft on > the ground. > > > > Regards > > Andrew > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *Kurt Redinbaugh > *Sent:* Wednesday, 13 February 2019 9:36 AM > *To:* [email protected]; Laurie Hoffman <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [DOG mailing list] In Flight Emergency Actions Part 2 Fire! > > > > Any thought of the benefit or not of blowing the canopy while in flight to > mqke egress easier once on the ground? > > > > Kurt Redinbaugh > > H-36 S/N 3660 > > > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 1:55 PM Laurie Hoffman via dog < > [email protected]> wrote: > > In flight fire presents one of the worst scenarios for any pilot, > especially for one flying a resin soaked, plastic, fuel and oil carrying > airframe. > > > > The H36 AFM distinguishes between in flight engine and electrical fires. > > > __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Hoffmann > 3 > > H 36 > DIMONA > Emergency Procedures > > 3.10 *Engine fire during flight*: > > Throttle - full power > > Fuel Valve - OFF > > Cabin Heat - Push , > > Cabin air - Pull > > Ignition - OFF when engine Stops > > Slipping the aircraft can keep smoke and flames from the cockpit > > Execute normal landing from a glide > > > > 3. 11 *Electrical Fire during flight*: > > Main Switch - OFF > > Circuit breakers - PULL OFF > > > > The engine will continue to run. Land as soon as practical or at the next > airfield > > > __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > With the loss of a well known and highly experienced glider pilot in his > MG due in flight fire last year, this topic is fresh in the minds of most > Aussie glider pilots. > > > > Nigel made the point that often a pilot may be unable to distinguish > between these types of fires during flight. Depending on the location and > nature of the smoke source within the cockpit that may well point to an > electrical fire but does it really matter which type of fire you have to > contend with? > > > > The reality is that if it continues to burn (and it will) one type is no > less hotter or catastrophic than the other although an electrical fire may > take a little longer but be more toxic! > > > > > > As with the previous section on engine failure during early climb out, the > AFM contains some sound advice and Nigel and I would argue, some less sound > advice. > > in my opinion it badly understates the urgency to get the aircraft down > onto the ground asap. > > > > > > Recommendations: > > > > 1. In the event of ANY fire, carry out ALL of the AFM actions listed for > BOTH Engine and Electrical fires. > > > > 2. WHILE doing the above, apply the greatest side slip that you can manage > and pull full spoilers as soon as your left hand is free from turning off > and pulling things. (The side slipping is for the reasons provided in the > AFM and also to redirect heat away from the canopy and cockpit) > > > > 3. Fly your Dimona through a wide spiraling descent so that you can survey > the best landing areas in your immediate vicinity on each turn and plan for > a rapid arrival at one. > > > > 4. Forget "*Execute normal landing from a glide*" just get the bloody > thing down so that you can egress and move well away upwind, while it burns. > > > > > > > > My Comments and as usual, appreciate your thoughts and feedback: > > > > 1 & 2. I plan to sit in the cockpit before startup on occasions, close my > eyes and visualise a fire. No time for finding and reading a checklist with > the H36. I'll just rehearse shutting everything off while entering a rapid > descent using side slipping and full spoilers. > > > > 2. Its well worth staying current in side slipping. Caution required near > the ground close to roundout but practiced at height and then applied by > joining a high/steeper final occasionally provides ample opportunity. > > > > 3. Landing engine off and actually using your touring motor glider as a > glider now and again builds real confidence in putting your aircraft down > at other than a licenced airport. Aussie pilots flying sailplanes are > required to undergo an annual 'outlanding' check and this is an equally > good idea for MG pilots. > > I have a very good Power Point on Outlanding developed by the GFA > Coaching dept if anyone is interested. > > > > 4. Be mindful of the toxicity of burning/smoldering plastics during > descent and try to lean towards any fresh air inlet for breathing in. > > > > Any other suggestions? > > > > *Best Regards* > > *Laurie * > > *Sydney Australia* > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > ************** PLEASE CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING > ************* > ******************* Confidentiality and Privilege Notice > ******************* > > This e-mail is intended only to be read or used by the addressee. It is > confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not > the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the > message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to > anyone, and you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by > reply e-mail. 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