Thanks Nigel. Some very interesting reading.What I've distilled from that info is that there are some things I'll definitely do, and some that will depend on circumstances at the time. I'll definitely be more vigilant in checking fuel system integrity in DIs and pre boarding checks. The GFA requirement to operate the boost pump and checks for leaks during each of these is important.I'll definitely be putting all of the anchors out and getting down onto the nearest patch of ground as soon as possible while switching everything off (may need three hands for that!). The whole point of this is visualising and rehearsing the relevant emergency actions and I intend to do a lot more of that myself and encourage our members to do the same.
As far as the canopy jettison is concerned, as we don't use shutes in our H36, and even with one jumping would be a last resort due the results in your summaries, I'll be aiming to dump the canopy when finally on the ground roll. As an aside Nigel, I think you may be confusing the Burketown incident with another. Pretty sure that the excessive fuel usage resulted from the carby jets being drilled beyond specs but then a fuel leak was evident after repairs? Another thought has come from the Ximango fire you mentioned (where the aircraft fortunately landed in a lake!) and the fire dmaged one side moer than the other. If a pilot has the presence of mind to detect a fire/smoke/heat on one side of the engine bay or the other, It might pay to initiate the sideslip towards the opposite side to direct all of that away from the aircraft, at least in the early stages? Best Regards Laurie On Wednesday, 20 February 2019, 12:11:35 am AEDT, Nigel Baker <ni...@limbachaustralia.com> wrote: Laurie and all. We had an commanded jettison of the canopy on a G109 in S.A. some years ago. I was not at all happy with the explanation from the 2 level 3 instructors on board and still don’t believe they should be L3’s as they continued to deliver more amazing calamities as time went by. Anyhow aside from that. They reported that apart from the high rate of descent the aircraft behaved normally. They circled and recorded the GPS position enabling recovery of the remains before tracking direct to the nearest strip from which the aircraft was trailered home with the recovered remains of the canopy. The S10VT fatal at Campden involving fire had the canopy jettisoned we believe for the reason you suggest however the end result was a departure from controlled flight. Stemme AG advised that they believed the controllability of the aircraft after canopy release was extremely poor to not available. There are 2 other cases of an S10VT and an very early S10 catching fire overseas and the crew escaping. In both cases they went for the highest decent rate they could achieve and side slipped to improve ventilation. The canopy was retained in both cases. The latest one was late last year and I attach an image taken by one of the pilots seconds after departing the cockpit. This was in Germany. They had NO time to recover any items of value but his phone was in his pocket hence the pics. His description from the time of realizing they were in trouble till landing and watching it destroyed on the runway was alarming at the speed things developed. The Zhimango pilot opened but did not jettison the canopy. The aircraft remained controllable and he could breath. Side slipping the aircraft resulting in the unoccupied seat and headset suffering serious heat damage from which he was spared. I have seen a Standard Jantar lose a canopy on takeoff. It struck the fin and he landed straight ahead no problems. I watched the most unlucky stupidest pilot I ever met land in a paddock after an aerotow upset on retrieve from a paddock. It was his Cirrus on its first flight back from its last repair under insurance. He was thirsty and decided to have a drink. Got way out of station. He went for the release in a panic and jettisoned the canopy instead while the tug pilot dumped him. He did a straight in approach to the paddock in front of him and went under the SWER line with minimal clearance. I know this as I was behind and about 500 feet above him on final glide calling over the radio to alert him to the line. He later said he had it picked but he didn’t. Handling was normal. His 4th accident and last was 4 months later in a Waikerie Gliding Club Twin Astir. Total right off. The 4th claim in his name and our insurers told us he was excluded from all club policies. Seems they had had a enough after the first 3 on his aircraft. After that the CFI believed me when I said I had serious concerns about his flying. WAY TOO LATE. The IS28M2 touring motor glider (worst aircraft I have ever flown) which is a side by side 2 seater can be flown with the sliding canopy open. All this I suppose tells us it depends on the individual aircraft. Our H36 tail feathers get slightly excited occasionally when I operate the cabin vent and isn’t the only one of that variant to do it. I don’t think I would like to try it canopy off. In any event any canopy has the ability to remove a tail plane if it ends up hitting it at speed. It depends on how cleanly it departs. I work on the principle of being extremely diligent to mitigate the chance of a fire. I can think of 3 right offs and one of them fatal in the last 6 years from fires where that principle was left wanting. Richard and I spent time at every DI for weeks trying to track down a fuel smell. We ultimately found it by due diligence and it was a widow maker waiting to happen. Put the wind up us but as we were diligent we found an fixed the problem. Others surprisingly accept such things and have even said to bystanders that a bit of a fuel leak it is normal. That fatefully in a recent instance resulted in the pilots death from inflight fire the day after he said it. There is nothing normal about a fuel leak other than doing a fuel drain. Too often I have encountered aircraft with leaks and the pilots are oblivious to the risks. The best one was when I discovered a 1litre a minute leak in a G109 just 2 weeks out of annual. I was doing an engine run after a carby change with the cowls off and a fire extinguisher in my hand. The owner pilot ignored the briefing and watched his instruments as I was indicting cut power. We got there after a very long 25 seconds. The fuel was running directly onto the exhaust. Only when the boost pump was running though. Later the pilot commented that that explained why his passenger had reported the smell of fuel every time they taxied and also partly why he was burning 22lits and hour (Leaking during takeoff/climb and landing with the boost pump running). To this day he doesn’t admit it was overly serious. He flew from Byron Bay to Burketown in that state with 5 stops. He then flew another 5 mornings before I found the leak. The guy who signed off the aircraft annual is also very much to blame. Cheers. Nige. From: dog@lists.riverland.net.au <dog@lists.riverland.net.au> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 5:59 PM To: dog@lists.riverland.net.au; dog@lists.riverland.net.au Subject: RE: [DOG mailing list] In Flight Emergency Actions Part 2 Fire! Good question Kurt and one we would have all thought about at some time. Would depend on a number of variables. Given the width of the Dimona canopy the probability of wiping out the tailplane on jettising would have to be high let alone balance issues Andrew mentioned. Windspeed in the cockpit wouldn't help either. I remember the blast in the cockpit when flying the Blanik without the canopy all those years ago (sorry Andrew!). So I think I'd only do so if I was suffocating and/or burning, not while still able. Nigel, Andrew or anyone else aware of any other in flight jettison events? I was going to suggest throwing the canopy as soon as you can free your hands to do so on the landing roll but on second thoughts you would then be more greatly exposed to the effects of the fire while still moving. Would a severe ground loop on touch down assist directing heat and smoke away from the cockpit and drastically shorten the landing roll? Laurie Sent from Yahoo7 Mail on Android On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 10:20 am, Andrew Simpson via dog <dog@lists.riverland.net.au> wrote: Hi Kurt, I performed the investigation on the latest fire in Australia, it’s a double edged sword the jettisoning of the canopy can have the effect of fanning the existing fire and making the situation worse. In the Ximango event the partial deployment of the canopy allowed the flames to lick up the fuselage side and affect the cockpit (Side slipping played an important part in the pilot walking away in this event). The canopy jettison has the potential to affect the cg and potential damage to structure if not a clean departure from the aircraft. I know of a few TMG pilots that have been involved in the 3 fire events in Australia that are seriously considering using parachutes and jumping in the case of a fire event. On a side note the GFA is working on an AD to apply Firefree 88 to the cowls and engine bay on motor gliders with repeat inspections at each form 2. Background is to provide more time for the pilot to get the aircraft on the ground. Regards Andrew From: dog@lists.riverland.net.au [mailto:dog@lists.riverland.net.au] On Behalf Of Kurt Redinbaugh Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2019 9:36 AM To: dog@lists.riverland.net.au; Laurie Hoffman <lozhoff...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [DOG mailing list] In Flight Emergency Actions Part 2 Fire! Any thought of the benefit or not of blowing the canopy while in flight to mqke egress easier once on the ground? Kurt Redinbaugh H-36 S/N 3660 On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 1:55 PM Laurie Hoffman via dog <dog@lists.riverland.net.au> wrote: In flight fire presents one of the worst scenarios for any pilot, especially for one flying a resin soaked, plastic, fuel and oil carrying airframe. The H36 AFM distinguishes between in flight engine and electrical fires. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Hoffmann 3 H 36 DIMONA Emergency Procedures 3.10 Engine fire during flight: Throttle - full power Fuel Valve - OFF Cabin Heat - Push , Cabin air - Pull Ignition - OFF when engine Stops Slipping the aircraft can keep smoke and flames from the cockpit Execute normal landing from a glide 3. 11 Electrical Fire during flight: Main Switch - OFF Circuit breakers - PULL OFF The engine will continue to run. Land as soon as practical or at the next airfield __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ With the loss of a well known and highly experienced glider pilot in his MG due in flight fire last year, this topic is fresh in the minds of most Aussie glider pilots. Nigel made the point that often a pilot may be unable to distinguish between these types of fires during flight. Depending on the location and nature of the smoke source within the cockpit that may well point to an electrical fire but does it really matter which type of fire you have to contend with? The reality is that if it continues to burn (and it will) one type is no less hotter or catastrophic than the other although an electrical fire may take a little longer but be more toxic! As with the previous section on engine failure during early climb out, the AFM contains some sound advice and Nigel and I would argue, some less sound advice. in my opinion it badly understates the urgency to get the aircraft down onto the ground asap. Recommendations: 1. In the event of ANY fire, carry out ALL of the AFM actions listed for BOTH Engine and Electrical fires. 2. WHILE doing the above, apply the greatest side slip that you can manage and pull full spoilers as soon as your left hand is free from turning off and pulling things. (The side slipping is for the reasons provided in the AFM and also to redirect heat away from the canopy and cockpit) 3. Fly your Dimona through a wide spiraling descent so that you can survey the best landing areas in your immediate vicinity on each turn and plan for a rapid arrival at one. 4. Forget "Execute normal landing from a glide" just get the bloody thing down so that you can egress and move well away upwind, while it burns. My Comments and as usual, appreciate your thoughts and feedback: 1 & 2. I plan to sit in the cockpit before startup on occasions, close my eyes and visualise a fire. No time for finding and reading a checklist with the H36. I'll just rehearse shutting everything off while entering a rapid descent using side slipping and full spoilers. 2. Its well worth staying current in side slipping. Caution required near the ground close to roundout but practiced at height and then applied by joining a high/steeper final occasionally provides ample opportunity. 3. Landing engine off and actually using your touring motor glider as a glider now and again builds real confidence in putting your aircraft down at other than a licenced airport. Aussie pilots flying sailplanes are required to undergo an annual 'outlanding' check and this is an equally good idea for MG pilots. I have a very good Power Point on Outlanding developed by the GFA Coaching dept if anyone is interested. 4. Be mindful of the toxicity of burning/smoldering plastics during descent and try to lean towards any fresh air inlet for breathing in. Any other suggestions? Best Regards Laurie Sydney Australia ************** PLEASE CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING ************* ******************* Confidentiality and Privilege Notice ******************* This e-mail is intended only to be read or used by the addressee. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone, and you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. Confidentiality and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of mistaken delivery to you. Qantas Airways Limited ABN 16 009 661 901 Visit Qantas online at http://qantas.com **************************************************************************** --------------------------------------------------------------------- You are subscribed to the Dimona Owners Group mailing list. To unsubscribe, send email to: dog-unsubscr...@lists.riverland.net.au