Id give my eyeteeth to have 9 bucks an hour!
On Tue, 9 May 1995, J M Brough wrote:
> Re. Kylie's post:
>
> > I do not beleive anyone should be
> > relegated to a $9 hour job. I think all jobs should pay the same
> > regardless of the expertise needed or the position that job has in society.
>
> I'm sure this is sincerely meant, but I think it is taking
> egalitarianism to absurdity. "True" communism -
> "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
> (Karl Marx) simply does not work beyond the family/tribal level.
> As soon as society expands until it is mostly composed of people
> who are strangers to each other rules and regulations are inevitable.
> There is no other way of running a nation state. Democracy may not be
> ideal but we've tried dictatorships, oligarchies, anarchies, theocracies and
> other assorted tyrannies and they all seem worse. Marx presumed that
> the state would simply "wither away" once communism was
> established. He forgot about human nature.
>
> Sincerely,
> June Brough.
>
>
>
>
>
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue May 9 21:41:35 MDT 1995
Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 23:43:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wainwright Joel David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: communism
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think the following ideas of J M Brough are interesting and worth
consideration. If others on the list think this is straying too far from
the ecofeminism discourse, let me know and I'll take it 'off-list.'
--- cut text ---
"True" communism -
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
(Karl Marx) simply does not work beyond the family/tribal level.
As soon as society expands until it is mostly composed of people
who are strangers to each other rules and regulations are inevitable.
There is no other way of running a nation state. Democracy may not be
ideal but we've tried dictatorships, oligarchies, anarchies, theocracies and
other assorted tyrannies and they all seem worse. Marx presumed that
the state would simply "wither away" once communism was
established. He forgot about human nature.
--- end text ---
This argument seems very problematic to me, so I'll try to understand
it.
First, I am fairly certain that Marx was not the originator of the "from
each..." quote, but rather it was a slogan conceived by the French
anarchist Proudhon. Do you know otherwise?
Second, given the enormous debates about the meanings of "communism" and
"socialism," it is unclear to me what is meant by the phrase "'true'
communism." What is "true" communism? Marx, Lenin, Mao, and many others
have had contrasting perspectives.
Third, are you assuming that Marx was opposed to democracy? It sounds
like you are arguing that communism = totalitarianism. But it is pretty
clear from Marx's own writings that he didn't want to replace capitalist
hierarchies with state hierarchies ...
Finally, in what sense did Marx forget about human nature? Are you
arguing that humans are rapacious and will compete each other to death,
and therefore cannot be trusted to living as socialists?
I don't want to critique this argument if I am misunderstanding it, but I
will contribute to the discussion by saying that I believe that
ecofeminism ethics should be socialist. Are we in agreement?
Joel Wainwright
