I couldn't help but add a little fuel to this fire....I completely agree with Dave's assertion that many of the negative, arrogant and rude comments regarding the merits of an Ed.D. are based more on ignorance and a superiority complex than on any real knowledge of the degree itself. I actually have experience with the Ed.D., as a former boss of mine was in the midst of completing an Ed.D. while I was working for him. I can tell you that his degree requirements were no "softer" than those of many of the Ph.D. programs in ecology, whether that be focused on modelling, genetics, field-based ecology or human dimensions.
I just asked a colleague in my lab if she had any experience with the Ed.D. degree program; right away, she recounted a family friend who had his Ed.D.--and was a regional extension director for the state of North Carolina, working as faculty from North Carolina State University. I don't see why the different concentration of the Ed.D.--(scientific) education and outreach, which we would presumably all agree are huge necessities in our field--somehow makes it less worthy than the Ph.D.'s focus. The insistence that only a privileged few are bright enough and tenacious enough to achieve a Ph.D., while ANYBODY could earn a Ed.D. is ridiculous; the differences in degree concentrations does not mean different levels of rigor. We all have different professional goals, and these goals require different pathways to get there. When so much of the discussion on this listserve surrounds the issue of "how do we get people with different backgrounds to work together to achieve a common goal?", I think it would do a lot of folks some good to check their egos at the door, and recognize that we'll never effectively work together if there is always an air of intellectual or professional superiority maintained by some. It's no wonder agency folks, consultants and the like can't stand academics; we bring it on ourselves. Remember, everyone who is at the table is there for a reason--because they ALL belong there. If some of you would stop preening your feathers, you might listen to one of your "lesser" colleagues and actually learn something. Lauren Quoting "David M. Lawrence" <d...@fuzzo.com>: > An Ed.D. does the same thing -- just in a different field. It may be > solely "applied" research as opposed to "basic" research, but a lot > of people get Ph.D. degrees in applied fields and no one seems to > sneer at their worth. > > So, a Ph.D. dissertation that reveals how to improve yield of a pine > plantation under changing environmental conditions is worthy of our > respect, but a Ed.D. dissertation that reveals how the improve yield > (in terms of concept learning and retention) among high school > science students coming from disadvantaged backgrounds is not. > > Can you defend that distinction? > > Dave > > Mitch Cruzan wrote: >> There is a deeper issue here- A PhD is not just something you get, >> or that anybody can just get. The ability to earn a PhD in any >> discipline is something that the majority of the population is not >> capable of achieving. It's not just about hard work- A PhD is earned >> through the demonstration of intellectual prowess, or more >> specifically the ability to assimilate and explicate information >> from the breadth of a field of study. In science, this amounts to >> the demonstration of the ability to conduct an original research >> program - to advance the field through a series of interrelated >> research projects; to interpret the results and provide evidentiary >> basis for the novelty and relevance of the contribution in the >> context of the existing primary literature. If my understanding of >> the EdD is correct, it is primarily pedagogical in focus- it >> demonstrates an ability to provide a simplified, but basically >> accurate explanation of a complex system that is understandable for >> an audience of a specific education level. PhD's advance the field >> while EdD's may explain what the philosophers did. Any PhD who >> conducts a research program that includes the training graduate >> students, and/or engages in teaching at the undergraduate level also >> does the work of an EdD- we get the best of both worlds. >> >> Mitch Cruzan >> >> >> Judith S. Weis wrote: >>> What Dave says is true, but since there is this prejudice, Jay would do >>> better getting a Ph.D. and avoiding the issue. >>> >>> >>> >>>> It seems the prejudice against the EdD, like most prejudices, is based >>>> on little evidence. Unfortunately, such prejudice is fairly common in >>>> the supposedly rational confines of academia. In other words, it's a >>>> turf thing. >>>> >>>> The PhDs would do well to broaden their awareness of the empirical world. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> Jay Beugly wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have indeed decided to pursue a PhD, but I thought that I would take >>>>> this >>>>> opportunity to inform ECOLOG subscribers about some of the >>>>> misconceptions >>>>> with an EdD. >>>>> >>>>> The university that I am currently enrolled in has two EdD options. The >>>>> most >>>>> common option is a doctorate of education in science education. The >>>>> science >>>>> education option is designed for individuals interested in K-12 >>>>> education >>>>> (Not me). >>>>> >>>>> The second option is a doctorate of education in science. It is designed >>>>> for >>>>> students who have interest in research but are more interested in >>>>> teaching >>>>> at the university level. The second option requires a research project >>>>> that >>>>> provides a significant contribution to your research area (fish ecology >>>>> in >>>>> my case) and 4 courses specifically designed for teaching at the >>>>> university >>>>> level. Based on the responses I have received it seems unlikely that I >>>>> would >>>>> be granted an interview if my vitae included EdD and not a PhD. >>>>> >>>>> Jay Beugly >>>>> jsbeu...@bsu.edu >>>>> >>>>> This is a quick review of some of the responses I have received for >>>>> those of >>>>> you who are interested. >>>>> >>>>> EdD won’t qualify you to teach in a university’s biology department >>>>> >>>>> EdD is a BS with makeup >>>>> >>>>> EdD qualifies you to teach high school only >>>>> >>>>> Multiple respondents had never heard of an EdD >>>>> >>>>> NSF identifies an EdD as a research doctorate equivalent to a PhD >>>>> >>>>> Many, but not all, respondents with a PhD viewed the EdD very >>>>> negatively. It >>>>> appears that earning an EdD make working with or amongst PhDs more >>>>> difficult >>>>> due to some lack of respect >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>>> David M. Lawrence | Home: (804) 559-9786 >>>> 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787 >>>> Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: d...@fuzzo.com >>>> USA | http: http://fuzzo.com >>>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> "We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo >>>> >>>> "No trespassing >>>> 4/17 of a haiku" -- Richard Brautigan >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------ > David M. Lawrence | Home: (804) 559-9786 > 7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787 > Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: d...@fuzzo.com > USA | http: http://fuzzo.com > ------------------------------------------------------ > > "We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo > > "No trespassing > 4/17 of a haiku" -- Richard Brautigan > >
