What is strict homosexuality? Coincidentaly, i just saw a TED Talk by iO 
Tillett Wright 'fifty shades of gay'. It seems even people who are openly gay 
often do not consider themselves 100% gay if being allowed to answer on a 
scale. Maybe sexuality is not as categorical as often portrayed. What appears 
as distinct could be the expression of a continuous trait with thresholds or 
even part of a mixed strategy.

Mick

On 2013-03-28, at 8:08, "Culliney, Thomas W - APHIS" 
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I was referring to strict homosexuality in humans. Granted, there probably 
> are cases in which children of a (perhaps deceased) sibling or other close 
> relative would be raised by a homosexual, thus raising his or her inclusive 
> fitness, but such cases would be rare. The Darwinian fitness of a strict 
> homosexual is, as a rule, zero. Helpers at the nest do forgo their own 
> reproduction to help relatives raise offspring, but, as far as I know, there 
> is no requirement for them to be homosexual.
> 
> Tom Culliney
> 
> From: Jonathan Colburn [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 10:05 AM
> To: Culliney, Thomas W - APHIS
> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Exclusive homosexuality
> 
> 
> Hi Tom,
> 
> Respectfully, the Darwinian fitness sounds like inclusive fitness, which is 
> often measured by reproductive success.  However, reproductive success of a 
> homosexual is not always a good measure of their inclusive fitness (e.g. 
> helpers at the nest).  Ultimately, any action that staves off fixation of 
> alleles to zero is about as close as we can come to determining that 
> something is inclusively fit...
> On Mar 28, 2013 9:20 AM, "Culliney, Thomas W - APHIS" 
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> 
> wrote:
> I note that the albatross article mentioned the words "natural" and "normal." 
> Homosexuality certainly is natural, as it occurs in nature, in animals from 
> groups ranging from arthropods to mammals (who knows what goes on in the 
> plant kingdom?). In all cases, there appears to be an adaptive reason for the 
> behavior. However, in its reproductive consequences, exclusive or strict 
> homosexuality, as exhibited in humans, cannot be considered normal sexual 
> behavior. The Darwinian fitness of homosexuals is zero. To the extent that 
> there is a genetic component to the behavior in humans, with their diverse 
> sexuality, the trait undoubtedly persists in the population largely through 
> the actions of bisexual individuals leading to the production of offspring.
> 
> The above is an argument strictly from a biological perspective, and is not a 
> moral judgment. What two consenting adults do in private is their own 
> business and no one else's.
> 
> Tom Culliney
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news 
> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On 
> Behalf Of Kristen Dybala
> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:55 PM
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Expedition notice and question
> 
> Laysan albatrosses are a fairly well-known example. Here's a (lengthy) 
> article describing it:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/magazine/04animals-t.html?pagewanted=all
> 
> -Kristen
> 
> 
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Merav Vonshak 
> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> 
>> This story reminds me of a similar story - a male pair of Griffon
>> vultures (Gyps fulvus). They incubated eggs and reared other pairs'
>> youngs as part of a breeding in captivity effort in Israel some years ago.
>> Merav
>> 
>> Merav Vonshak
>> Postdoctoral Fellow
>> Gordon Laboratory
>> Department of Biology
>> Stanford University
>> Stanford, CA 94305-5020
>> 
>> Phone: 650-725-6791<tel:650-725-6791>
>> email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
>> http://www.stanford.edu/~mvonshak
>> 
>> On 27, Mar2013, at 12:08 PM, Montblanc, Genie wrote:
>> 
>>> WT,
>>> 
>>> Since I don't study this, I'm giving a, "What I've heard in the news,"
>> response.  There were two stories awhile back, both relating to
>> animals in captivity, about homosexual pair bonding.  One was with
>> penguins, I think they also raised a chick together, and the other was
>> with dolphins.  Given that long-term pair bonding only occurs in 8-11
>> species in the entire animal kingdom, the question might be moot anyway.
>>> 
>>> That is my inexpert response.  Have a great expedition!
>>> Génie
>>> 
>>> Eugénie MontBlanc
>>> Great Basin Fire Science Delivery Coordinator University of
>>> Nevada/Mail Stop 0186, Reno, NV 89557
>>> Phone: 775-784-1107<tel:775-784-1107> (Fax: -1109)
>>> Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
>>> Web: www.gbfiresci.org<http://www.gbfiresci.org>
>>> Twitter: @GBfirescience
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:
>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of 
>> Wayne Tyson
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 10:32 AM
>>> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
>>> Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Expedition notice and question
>>> 
>>> [NOTE:] I will be on expedition (with a stop at the National Native
>>> Seed
>> Conference in Santa Fe NM on April 10) until the two weeks at the end
>> of April and the first week of May, then gone again beginning the 2nd
>> week of May until around May 24. I will not be checking email during
>> those periods, but will respond to as many email messages as possible
>> during those hiatuses. A third expedition following those is likely,
>> but the period of hiatus is iffy.]
>>> 
>>> Here is my parting question. Please feel free to post it on other lists.
>>> 
>>> Re: Homosexuality in animals other than Homo sapiens. We know that
>> homosexual behavior occurs in other species in some forms (Bonobo
>> chimpanzees [Pan paniscus], for example), and we know that
>> hermaphrodites of some species fertilize each other simultaneously.
>> But my question is in which species other than humans, does EXCLUSIVE
>> homosexuality, especially in the form of pair bonds, occur?
>>> 
>>> WT
>>> 
>>> I'll pick up my answers in late April. If I have time, I may be able
>>> to
>> respond to some today. Please respond on-list, and not to me personally.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Kristen Dybala, Post-doctoral Researcher Museum of Wildlife and Fish Biology 
> University of California, Davis 
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> (415) 218-9295<tel:%28415%29%20218-9295> - cell
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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