Hi all,

I agree with Carrie too and I already responded to Howard, but he's my
response again for you all:

The answer is simply 'yes'. Although biology was the science for
non-mathematicians back in the day, more and more modelling is coming into
the discipline and students will need a reasonable mathematical foundation
to cope in biology in the future. Even if only a basic foundation is
provided, this will help students understand innovative statistical
approaches and more complex models that touch on their fields, even if they
are unable to use them themselves.

More generally there should be more maths requirements in Biology.
Otherwise students will simply fall behind.

Andrew


--
Andrew Wright, Ph.D.

VaquitaAreBrowncoats: Where Sci-Fi meets Science, the Cosmos meets
Conservation and Firefly meets Flipper. Shiny
https://www.facebook.com/vaquitaarebrowncoats.

"We don't have to save the world. The world is big enough to look after
itself. What we have to be concerned about is whether or not the world we
live in will be capable of sustaining us in it." Douglas Adams

GNU Terry Pratchett

On 19 October 2016 at 06:20, John Anderson <jander...@coa.edu> wrote:

> I am fascinated by this discussion and would love to hear more points of
> view.  As far as carrie's excellent post, I guess I am not sure why one
> would expect a Calculus course to do her 6 points any more than many other
> classes?  I was required to take two terms of calculus as an undergrad
> Zoology major back when there were such majors, plus a year of physics.  We
> had to take a year of physical Chemistry before we could take Biology, and
> then could only enroll in Biology if we simultaneously took Organic Chem.
> It always seemed to me that a LOT of these classes were more about getting
> rid of people than educating them.  Weirdly, stats was NOT required.  In
> all the years since I have used calculus (briefly) in a course on
> theoretical population biology, I use Chemistry primarily when i teach
> physiology, but professionally I use Stats all the time.  Talking with
> colleagues, this pattern seems by no means unique.  Thoughts?
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 11:04 AM, Joseph Russell <
> josephdrussel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Carrie here! When I was a Marine Biology undergrad at
>> Stockton University in NJ, we were required to take two semesters of
>> physics. However, the physics I and II courses that we took were not the
>> same as would have been taken by a physics major. Our Physics courses were
>> titled "physics for life sciences" which narrowed down the concepts to
>> those that applied to people in the life sciences field. I believe the
>> calculus courses that we were required to take were standard calculus, but
>> I could see something like this working as well, where the calculus courses
>> would not be like a calculus course taken by a math major, but rather, the
>> curriculum would be designed so that the concepts and learning objectives
>> would suit the field of study. Carrie has provided an excellent list below
>> with the 6 points of valuable competencies for prospective biologists.
>>
>> *Joseph Russell, MNR*
>>
>> *Wildlife Management and Recreational Planning Research Fellow*
>>
>> Stockton University
>>
>> Galloway, NJ 08205
>>
>> (609) 287-0596
>>
>> joseph.russ...@stockton.edu
>>
>> *www.stockton.edu <http://www.stockton.edu/>*
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 10:18 AM, Carrie Eaton <cea...@unity.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I responded with a few details already to Howard.  But I’ll just
>> generally say that if you are thinking about curricular redesign, I’d like
>> to suggest backward design based on concepts and competencies that
>> employers need and which have been well identified by many national level
>> reports. For example, Vision and Change.  Vision and Change identifies 6
>> vital competencies for all biology students:
>>
>> 1.      ABILITY TO APPLY THE PROCESS OF SCIENCE
>>
>> 2.      ABILITY TO USE QUANTITATIVE REASONING
>>
>> 3.      ABILITY TO USE MODELING AND SIMULATION
>>
>> 4.      ABILITY TO TAP INTO THE INTERDISCIPLINARY NATURE OF SCIENCE
>>
>> 5.      ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE AND COLLABORATE WITH OTHER DISCIPLINES
>>
>> 6.      ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SCIENCE AND
>> SOCIETY
>>
>>
>>
>> Well-designed Calculus courses can help you reach many of these goals.
>> More traditional courses in calculus may not meet these goals. I encourage
>> you to consider if you advocate (as you do below) for its exclusion, that
>> you consider alternatives to help students meet these same competencies or
>> consider reaching out to your colleagues in mathematics (which I know well)
>> to brainstorm how to better meet the needs of your department.
>>
>>
>>
>> Carrie
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [
>> mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>] *On Behalf
>> Of *Neufeld, Howard S.
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 17, 2016 8:09 PM
>> *To:* ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
>> *Subject:* [ECOLOG-L] Should Calculus Be Required of All Ecology/Biology
>> Majors?
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear All -
>>
>>
>>
>> I am participating in a study here at Appalachian State University about
>> whether we should restructure the mathematics and statistics requirements
>> for our biology/ecology majors. For example, should we require all majors
>> to take an entire semester of calculus?
>>
>>
>>
>> I have written an explanation of why we are looking into this, and you
>> can read the essay by going to this link on Google Drive:
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BxpSVO5IUz-EMGdwU1lD
>> NjhSRFE?usp=sharing
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Fdrive%2Ffolders%2F0BxpSVO5IUz-EMGdwU1lDNjhSRFE%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=01%7C01%7Cceaton%40UNITY.EDU%7C456a9cd7a652468872f308d3f7097b83%7Ca5df695b72854f398c84d1c50676d682%7C1&sdata=2mAiVUB0M6YbaNE1aAJgYOx9WYBpHNr2JDGibd3pLoM%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>> I would welcome comments from those interested in this subject, which
>> would help us out here at Appalachian State in our discussions of this
>> important subject.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Howie Neufeld
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dr. Howard S. Neufeld, Professor
>>
>> Director, Southern Appalachian Environmental Research and Education Center 
>> (SAEREC)
>>
>> Chair, Appalachian Interdisciplinary Atmospheric Research Group (AppalAIR)
>>
>>
>>
>> Mailing Address:
>>
>>    Department of Biology
>>
>>    572 Rivers St.
>>
>>    Appalachian State University
>>
>>    Boone, NC 28608
>>
>>    Tel: 828-262-2683; Fax 828-262-2127
>>
>>
>>
>> Websites:
>>
>>     Academic: http://biology.appstate.edu/faculty-staff/104 
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbiology.appstate.edu%2Ffaculty-staff%2F104&data=01%7C01%7Cceaton%40UNITY.EDU%7C456a9cd7a652468872f308d3f7097b83%7Ca5df695b72854f398c84d1c50676d682%7C1&sdata=RWMTyWJBUOKoocq0DBChu9WVGSS0os%2BkgMedyp%2BpuTU%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>     Personal: http://www.appstate.edu/~neufeldhs/index.html 
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.appstate.edu%2F~neufeldhs%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7Cceaton%40UNITY.EDU%7C456a9cd7a652468872f308d3f7097b83%7Ca5df695b72854f398c84d1c50676d682%7C1&sdata=9VBX90HqWyCtYMY9K%2Bs2XcwPS1EE9pTumQYhUjEhbr8%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>     SAEREC: http://saerec.appstate.edu 
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsaerec.appstate.edu&data=01%7C01%7Cceaton%40UNITY.EDU%7C456a9cd7a652468872f308d3f7097b83%7Ca5df695b72854f398c84d1c50676d682%7C1&sdata=GeP3Lm4JmJH49rGjmcyyu9RW00FJXbHH1e%2BZqnaAWvA%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>     AppalAIR: http://appalair.appstate.edu 
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fappalair.appstate.edu&data=01%7C01%7Cceaton%40UNITY.EDU%7C456a9cd7a652468872f308d3f7097b83%7Ca5df695b72854f398c84d1c50676d682%7C1&sdata=pfCLgJQPqc4kTCoFLsSh1%2BGTl8FyZdWrhFkSsgA2a3U%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>     Fall Colors:
>>
>>           Academic: http://biology.appstate.edu/fall-colors 
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbiology.appstate.edu%2Ffall-colors&data=01%7C01%7Cceaton%40UNITY.EDU%7C456a9cd7a652468872f308d3f7097b83%7Ca5df695b72854f398c84d1c50676d682%7C1&sdata=LLhD7R%2F0vnSKnv0WV7qCmAgu4KCw411MMfhoxHGk0ys%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>           Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FallColorGuy 
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FFallColorGuy&data=01%7C01%7Cceaton%40UNITY.EDU%7C456a9cd7a652468872f308d3f7097b83%7Ca5df695b72854f398c84d1c50676d682%7C1&sdata=XGU2qZJr0hGZASjIPMco0l%2FsZcomP%2FpJPS7pHKj9jxI%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> John Anderson
> W.H. Drury Professor of Ecology/Natural History
> College of the Atlantic
> 105 Eden St
> Bar Harbor
> ME 04609
>

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