Hi All
I have been lurking on this thread without commenting because I think
(as others have mentioned) that questions that start "should" we do
things a certain way are likely going to be problematic. That said, I
think this lack of convergence on a rationale is worrisome to me.
I want my biology students to take more than 1 year of calculus - I
would like them to have ODE and Linear algebra at a minimum. I also
want them to have a basic statistics course as well as advanced courses
(Bayesian methods, time series analysis, etc.). I want them to take
these courses in a manner that allows them to be integrated into
training in philosophy of science, and a whole lot of other stuff. I
want them to have as many tools in their tool chest as possible.
I am motivated to this position by two questions:
1) What biology will my students be doing 20 years from now when they
will need to remain competitive for jobs? I currently have no idea what
it will look like. I suspect strongly that it will look nothing like
what I am doing now. I base this expectation on my observation that
what I am doing now looks nothing like the biology I was exposed to in
my training. I am doing mathematical and statistical methods now that
did not exist in the literature when I was an undergrad 25 years ago. I
would not have been flexible enough to survive to this point, and ask
the questions I am asking now, if I had not had to acquire some
mathematical tools then.
2) What are your aspirations for your students? I want mine to be
great. I want mine to do great things and go where I have not even
thought about. If they're going to do that, I think a lot of their
opportunities are going to be in doing integrative work, which means
their going to have to versatile and flexible to work across
disciplinary boundaries. So yes, they're going to need calculus - along
with a lot of other stuff - even if its only to understand mundane stuff
like when to put their cold milk in their hot coffee.
Put me down for requiring a lot of calculus. Whether we are doing this
well now is whole other question.
THanks
SLK
On 10/19/2016 7:43 AM, John Anderson wrote:
This has been a great thread so far (not least because I am in the
process of writing an article on the importance of Natural History in
education, and some folks have been really good at essentially
pointing up some of the things I really worry about). I am MOST
interested in WHY people think that Calculus should be a broad
requirement. So far the arguments seem to be pretty vague -it should
be because it "always" has been, it should be because it is some sort
of mark of being educated, it should be because otherwise we will feel
inferior to international students, it should be because coding, it
should be because modelling... all very interesting, but apart from
the last, not really speaking to the utility of Calculus in actual
professional life. How many of us actually use calculus in
modelling? Arguing that calculus is essential "because today's youth
is learning R", or "because modern ecology is about Big Data" seems a
bit silly, coding is not calculus, Big Data is not necessarily reduced
to meaningful information by calculus, most students (and grad
students) going through universities probably won't use calculus at
all. On the other hand they WILL need to be able to write. I was on a
boat with a journal editor a couple of weeks back and she was
bemoaning how the quality of manuscripts she is getting is plunging.
Students aren't being taught basic grammar, they don't understand
punctuation, and they have a hard time making a point. Perhaps a
couple of extra English classes might benefit students more than more
higher math? The other arguments have a weird echo of child abuse to
them: because we were abused we will also abuse". Given the
distractions of financial woes, outside jobs, and the need to
encourage our students to become well rounded and useful citizens,
might it not be a good idea to take a really cold hard look at what we
require? It is rather like the emphasis in High Schools on molecular
genetics in "college bound" Biology classes. Only a tiny fraction of
High School students who are taught electrophoresis (at significant
cost in money and great cost in time) will ever retain or use that
information. On the other hand, if they were taught to identify the
common plants and animals around them they might be of some use to
their regional Conservation Commission. We have proscribed what it
means to do "science" in some very arbitrary ways which smack of 19th
century ideas of what it meant to be a "gentleman". There was some
merit to that concept, but also some difficulties... Thanks for all
the comments, I hope this keeps going!
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 8:48 AM, Malcolm McCallum
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Back in the 1960s, when my Dad started junior college, freshman
math... that everyone was required to take, was calculus I.
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 3:55 AM, Richard Shefferson
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I normally do not contribute to ECOLOG (my apologies...), but
thought I should put my own 2 cents in on this one. I work in
Japan at a major university (although I am American and
educated for the most part in the US), and part of my job
involves admissions into our international BS program. We take
applications from all over the world, and interview students.
As a part of this process, we generally quiz students in their
understanding of mathematics. What has shocked me in this
regard is that American students applying to our program, who
include amazingly smart students with top SAT scores,
understand mathematics at a far lower level than students from
the entire rest of the planet (this is not an exaggeration).
European and Asian students applying, as high school students,
into out undergrad degree already understand calculus and
probability theory at levels I've only seen in American 3rd or
4th year college math majors. I knew before moving to Japan
that American students were a little behind when it comes to
STEM education, and in terms of the basic sciences I think
they are just a little behind. But in terms of mathematics,
they are at the bottom of cliff, and the rest of the world is
at the top of that cliff. As a personal aside, as an immigrant
to the US, I have also been strongly dismayed at the fact that
the simplest math questions always result in someone asking me
for the answer. Simple conversions from IMperial to metric,
and so forth.
So, to end my little rant, I would say that a discussion of
whether to end the teaching of calculus to ecology majors only
reinforces my own belief that American students are moving
even further below the rest of the world when it comes to STEM
education.
Sincerely,
Rich Shefferson
New book on the Evolution of Senescence in the Tree of Life
http://tinyurl.com/SenescenceBook
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Sent from my NSA tracking device
On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Neufeld, Howard S.
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear All -
I am participating in a study here at Appalachian State
University about whether we should restructure the
mathematics and statistics requirements for our
biology/ecology majors. For example, should we require all
majors to take an entire semester of calculus?
I have written an explanation of why we are looking into
this, and you can read the essay by going to this link on
Google Drive:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BxpSVO5IUz-EMGdwU1lDNjhSRFE?usp=sharing
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__drive.google.com_drive_folders_0BxpSVO5IUz-2DEMGdwU1lDNjhSRFE-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=DQMFaQ&c=C3yme8gMkxg_ihJNXS06ZyWk4EJm8LdrrvxQb-Je7sw&r=A-lXv-nHAz9Gby1H_SQFwfRFAYkK9DJj4otOouLz7ak&m=R9xXnPmVnXGzw63n4H33dSeG_060eumBzyzo4va2q28&s=C50mA5P2FYUgBsKo1pDD3qxF3Npwgt6QdrY74w4S3gw&e=>
I would welcome comments from those interested in this
subject, which would help us out here at Appalachian State
in our discussions of this important subject.
Thanks!
Howie Neufeld
--
Dr. Howard S. Neufeld, Professor
Director, Southern Appalachian Environmental Research and Education
Center (SAEREC)
Chair, Appalachian Interdisciplinary Atmospheric Research Group
(AppalAIR)
Mailing Address:
Department of Biology
572 Rivers St.
Appalachian State University
Boone, NC 28608
Tel:828-262-2683 <tel:828-262-2683>; Fax828-262-2127
<tel:828-262-2127>
Websites:
Academic:http://biology.appstate.edu/faculty-staff/104
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Personal:http://www.appstate.edu/~neufeldhs/index.html
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SAEREC:http://saerec.appstate.edu
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Fall Colors:
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--
Malcolm L. McCallum
Director of the Aquatic Resources Center
Aquaculture and Water Quality Research Scientist
School of Agriculture and Applied Sciences
Langston University Langston, Oklahoma
Link to online CV and portfolio :
https://www.visualcv.com/malcolm-mc-callum?access=18A9RYkDGxO
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Google Scholar citation page:
https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=lOHMjvYAAAAJ&hl=en
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Academia.edu:
https://ui-springfield.academia.edu/MalcolmMcCallum/Analytics#/activity/overview?_k=wknchj
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Researchgate:
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“/Nothing is more priceless and worthy of preservation than the
rich array of animal life with which our country has been blessed.
It is a many-faceted treasure, of value to scholars, scientists,
and nature lovers alike, and it forms a vital part of the heritage
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-*Allan Nation* *1880's: *"/There's lots of good fish in the sea/"
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overfishing, habitat loss,and pollution. 2000: Marine reserves,
ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction /MAY/ help restore
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Detective Thorn
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it was beautiful.' Edward G. Robinson as Sol Roth. The Seven
Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi) Wealth w/o work Pleasure
w/o conscience Knowledge w/o character Commerce w/o morality
Science w/o humanity Worship w/o sacrifice Politics w/o principle
--
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