Hi All,
I have enjoyed reading the various perspectives and think the overall discussion is beneficial. I am a recent PhD graduate and had the opportunity to participate in an NSF Integrative Graduate Education and Research Traineeship (IGERT) focused on building more interdisciplinary scientist, specifically across the fields of math, statistics, geology, and ecology. Part of the curriculum required all students to take coursework outside their respective disciplines. As an ecologist, I needed to take graduate-level courses in statistics, geology, and mathematics. While my former degrees (BS and MS) had provided sufficient prerequisites in statistics and geology, I needed to take Calculus II, Linear Algebra, and Differential Equations just to qualify for the graduate course in Mathematical Modeling. Calculus II is likely not "fun" for most students majoring in biology/ecology, but, it is substantially more difficult when it has been over 5 years since you've taken Calculus I. I will never integrate functions by-hand as a regular part of my job. However, understanding fundamental math concepts, like function convergence/divergence and the Taylor Series, seems important for any ecologist working with mathematical models. In answer to the original question of "...whether we should restructure the mathematics and statistics requirements for our biology/ecology majors?" I would say, "Yes!" If you want broadly trained ecologists/biologists with the greatest opportunity for success in diverse career paths, make core Mathematics and Statistics courses part of the undergraduate curriculum. It is much easier to take these courses as an undergrad than trying to fill in gaps as a graduate student that is also juggling research responsibilities. Hope this helps! Chanda ________________________________ From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news <ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU> on behalf of John Anderson <jander...@coa.edu> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 10:43:40 AM To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Should Calculus Be Required of All Ecology/Biology Majors? This has been a great thread so far (not least because I am in the process of writing an article on the importance of Natural History in education, and some folks have been really good at essentially pointing up some of the things I really worry about). I am MOST interested in WHY people think that Calculus should be a broad requirement. So far the arguments seem to be pretty vague -it should be because it "always" has been, it should be because it is some sort of mark of being educated, it should be because otherwise we will feel inferior to international students, it should be because coding, it should be because modelling... all very interesting, but apart from the last, not really speaking to the utility of Calculus in actual professional life. How many of us actually use calculus in modelling? Arguing that calculus is essential "because today's youth is learning R", or "because modern ecology is about Big Data" seems a bit silly, coding is not calculus, Big Data is not necessarily reduced to meaningful information by calculus, most students (and grad students) going through universities probably won't use calculus at all. On the other hand they WILL need to be able to write. I was on a boat with a journal editor a couple of weeks back and she was bemoaning how the quality of manuscripts she is getting is plunging. Students aren't being taught basic grammar, they don't understand punctuation, and they have a hard time making a point. Perhaps a couple of extra English classes might benefit students more than more higher math? The other arguments have a weird echo of child abuse to them: because we were abused we will also abuse". Given the distractions of financial woes, outside jobs, and the need to encourage our students to become well rounded and useful citizens, might it not be a good idea to take a really cold hard look at what we require? It is rather like the emphasis in High Schools on molecular genetics in "college bound" Biology classes. Only a tiny fraction of High School students who are taught electrophoresis (at significant cost in money and great cost in time) will ever retain or use that information. On the other hand, if they were taught to identify the common plants and animals around them they might be of some use to their regional Conservation Commission. We have proscribed what it means to do "science" in some very arbitrary ways which smack of 19th century ideas of what it meant to be a "gentleman". There was some merit to that concept, but also some difficulties... Thanks for all the comments, I hope this keeps going! On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 8:48 AM, Malcolm McCallum <malcolm.mccallum.ta...@gmail.com<mailto:malcolm.mccallum.ta...@gmail.com>> wrote: Back in the 1960s, when my Dad started junior college, freshman math... that everyone was required to take, was calculus I. On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 3:55 AM, Richard Shefferson <dorma...@gmail.com<mailto:dorma...@gmail.com>> wrote: I normally do not contribute to ECOLOG (my apologies...), but thought I should put my own 2 cents in on this one. I work in Japan at a major university (although I am American and educated for the most part in the US), and part of my job involves admissions into our international BS program. We take applications from all over the world, and interview students. As a part of this process, we generally quiz students in their understanding of mathematics. What has shocked me in this regard is that American students applying to our program, who include amazingly smart students with top SAT scores, understand mathematics at a far lower level than students from the entire rest of the planet (this is not an exaggeration). European and Asian students applying, as high school students, into out undergrad degree already understand calculus and probability theory at levels I've only seen in American 3rd or 4th year college math majors. I knew before moving to Japan that American students were a little behind when it comes to STEM education, and in terms of the basic sciences I think they are just a little behind. But in terms of mathematics, they are at the bottom of cliff, and the rest of the world is at the top of that cliff. As a personal aside, as an immigrant to the US, I have also been strongly dismayed at the fact that the simplest math questions always result in someone asking me for the answer. Simple conversions from IMperial to metric, and so forth. So, to end my little rant, I would say that a discussion of whether to end the teaching of calculus to ecology majors only reinforces my own belief that American students are moving even further below the rest of the world when it comes to STEM education. Sincerely, Rich Shefferson New book on the Evolution of Senescence in the Tree of Life http://tinyurl.com/SenescenceBook Sent from my NSA tracking device On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Neufeld, Howard S. <neufel...@appstate.edu<mailto:neufel...@appstate.edu>> wrote: Dear All - I am participating in a study here at Appalachian State University about whether we should restructure the mathematics and statistics requirements for our biology/ecology majors. For example, should we require all majors to take an entire semester of calculus? I have written an explanation of why we are looking into this, and you can read the essay by going to this link on Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BxpSVO5IUz-EMGdwU1lDNjhSRFE?usp=sharing I would welcome comments from those interested in this subject, which would help us out here at Appalachian State in our discussions of this important subject. Thanks! Howie Neufeld -- Dr. Howard S. Neufeld, Professor Director, Southern Appalachian Environmental Research and Education Center (SAEREC) Chair, Appalachian Interdisciplinary Atmospheric Research Group (AppalAIR) Mailing Address: Department of Biology 572 Rivers St. Appalachian State University Boone, NC 28608 Tel: 828-262-2683<tel:828-262-2683>; Fax 828-262-2127<tel:828-262-2127> Websites: Academic: http://biology.appstate.edu/faculty-staff/104 Personal: http://www.appstate.edu/~neufeldhs/index.html SAEREC: http://saerec.appstate.edu AppalAIR: http://appalair.appstate.edu Fall Colors: Academic: http://biology.appstate.edu/fall-colors Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FallColorGuy -- Malcolm L. McCallum Director of the Aquatic Resources Center Aquaculture and Water Quality Research Scientist School of Agriculture and Applied Sciences Langston University Langston, Oklahoma Link to online CV and portfolio : https://www.visualcv.com/malcolm-mc-callum?access=18A9RYkDGxO Google Scholar citation page: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=lOHMjvYAAAAJ&hl=en Academia.edu: https://ui-springfield.academia.edu/MalcolmMcCallum/Analytics#/activity/overview?_k=wknchj Researchgate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Malcolm_Mccallum/reputation?ev=prf_rep_tab<https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Malcolm_Mccallum/reputation?ev=prf_rep_tab> Ratemyprofessor: http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=706874 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. "Nothing is more priceless and worthy of preservation than the rich array of animal life with which our country has been blessed. It is a many-faceted treasure, of value to scholars, scientists, and nature lovers alike, and it forms a vital part of the heritage we all share as Americans." -President Richard Nixon upon signing the Endangered Species Act of 1973 into law. "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - Allan Nation 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss,and pollution. 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction MAY help restore populations. 2022: "Soylent Green is People!" Charleton Heston as Detective Thorn 2022: "People were always awful, but their was a world once, and it was beautiful.' Edward G. 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