Thank you to all who responded to my post. The one thing in common that all of you taught me is that the radials need not be exact when on or in the ground. I am using insulated wire for the radials because it is what I have on hand. I do have a lawn edger and will bury them as suggested just under the surface. As soon as the rains go away I will finish up the job.
Several suggestions presented by all will be tried. I appreciate your input, and will post again after completion and tests. Thanks Roy - WK4Y K3 #1366 ----- Original Message ----- From: "WILLIS COOKE" <wrco...@flash.net> To: <Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>; "Roy Davis" <r...@verizon.net> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 43' Vertical > > Roy, I would use #12 stranded house wire for the radiators like you buy at > home depot and just use two of them. Or if you have some other wire on > hand, use that. It does not make much difference, but standard is #14 or > bigger for physical strength. Don't spend too much time making the > radials resonant because if you bury them they will be detuned. It does > not matter how far under ground they are. I just hold mine down with some > of the hooked wires used to tie chain link fence to keep the lawn mower > from picking them up until the grass grows over them. If you cut a slit, > make it only about and inch or so deep, cut it with a lawn edger and push > the wire in with a stick. 64 radials surely should be enough. I have 5 > on my 160/80 inverted L that are 50 feet long. I could probably use more, > but I have worked DXCC on 40 with a vertical with only one radial 30 feet > long. > > Willis 'Cookie' Cooke > K5EWJ > > > --- On Sun, 3/15/09, Roy Davis <r...@verizon.net> wrote: > >> From: Roy Davis <r...@verizon.net> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 43' Vertical >> To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 5:23 PM >> I am in the process of building a 40 meter 1/4 wave >> vertical. My hopes for >> this antenna is that when the conditions favor vertical >> antennas as opposed >> to a dipole, that it will help me to work in to the far >> East as my dipole >> does not. I understand that a dense radial field is >> necessary for good >> results and that the far field which I have no control is a >> factor. My plan >> is to use 64 insulated radials as close to resonant as >> possible, buried a >> few inches below soil. I thought of using ladder line as >> the radiator, >> cutting one side for 40 and the other for 30 meters >> supported by a catenary >> line. If that does not prove out, I have aluminum tubing >> which to make a >> 1/4 wave for 40. Anyone have any comments pro or con for >> my project? So >> far, I have the pipe in the ground, and the radials cut >> ready to attach to >> the DX Engineering radial plate. >> >> I have K3 #1366 and really like this radio. A lot to offer >> in such a small >> package. >> >> 73. >> >> Roy Davis - WK4Y >> Richmond VA >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "WILLIS COOKE" <wrco...@flash.net> >> To: "James Apple" <wb1...@gmail.com>; >> <Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>; "Darwin, >> Keith" <keith.dar...@goodrich.com> >> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 43' Vertical and the K2 tuner >> >> >> > >> > Keith, in theory the 5/8 vertical should be 3 db >> stronger than the 1/4 >> > vertical installed in the same position. A ground >> plane on top of a house >> > could easily be as good or better than a 5/8 wave >> ground mounted and >> > radiating into the side of the house and some trees. >> 3 db is about 1/2 S >> > unit anyway, so it will not be a large difference. >> You are correct about >> > the far field conductivity being very important in how >> a vertical antenna >> > will play, whether it is mounted on top of a tower or >> house or ground >> > mounted. The radials are most important to bring up >> the radiation >> > efficiency, the far field is most important for the >> take off angle. >> > >> > The 43 foot vertical will have a higher radiation >> resistance than a >> > shorter vertical for all bands, making it easier to >> get the efficiency up. >> > It will still be lower than 50 ohms for 160, 80 and 60 >> meters, about 50 >> > ohms for 40 and higher for the upper frequencies. I >> don't have one >> > because I have a 3 element SteppIR with the 30/40 >> dipole trombone at 21 >> > meters. I don't think the 43 foot vertical will >> play as well, but they do >> > play well. I have worked several of the Zero-Five >> offering and they all >> > play well. I would expect the DXE, Hygain and MFJ to >> play well also, but >> > they are newer and I don't know anyone who has >> one. All still need a good >> > ground plane and will play much better with conductive >> soil. >> > >> > Willis 'Cookie' Cooke >> > K5EWJ >> > >> > >> > --- On Sun, 3/15/09, Darwin, Keith >> <keith.dar...@goodrich.com> wrote: >> > >> >> From: Darwin, Keith >> <keith.dar...@goodrich.com> >> >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] 43' Vertical and the >> K2 tuner >> >> To: "James Apple" >> <wb1...@gmail.com>, Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 2:39 PM >> >> A few years ago, I was really on the 5/8 vertical >> bandwagon. >> >> I thought it was the cat's meow. The problem >> was that >> >> real world A/B testing did NOT show it to be any >> better than >> >> a 1/4 wave vert. >> >> >> >> I had a 5/8 wave vert for 15 meters. Ground >> mounted over >> >> 16 radials. An ATU at the base took care of the >> small >> >> impedance mismatch and RG-213 carried the signal >> to the rig. >> >> Hot stuff - or so I thought. >> >> >> >> I also had a 1/4 wave ground plane (4 radials) on >> the roof >> >> of my single story house. It was fed with RG-58. >> I spent a >> >> lot of time with an A/B switch listening to both >> antennas. >> >> You'd think the 5/8 with it's mondo >> low-angle >> >> radiation pattern would walk all over the 1/4 wave >> but it >> >> DID NOT. DX signals as the band was just opening >> or closing >> >> were sometimes stronger on the 5/8, other times on >> the 1/4. >> >> There was no clear winner. >> >> >> >> It was years before I found the answer. >> >> >> >> Apparently, that wonderful low angle radiation >> that we want >> >> out of the 5/8 wave antenna depends HEAVILY on the >> ground >> >> conductivity many, many wavelengths away from the >> antenna. >> >> Far out of the reach of any ground radial system, >> poor soil >> >> conductivity is sucking the low angle radiation >> down to near >> >> zero. Sure, over salt water it is fabulous, but >> for the >> >> vast majority, it just doesn't pan out that >> way. >> >> >> >> So, for "normal" soil, it seems the best >> height >> >> is something less than 1/2 wave. >> >> >> >> I run a 33' vertical with a Hustler 80M >> resonator on >> >> top. It resonates on 80 and 40 and does pretty >> well on >> >> those two bands. It also delivers the goods on 30 >> meters >> >> due to the remote tuner. On 20 meters and higher >> it >> >> isn't really all that impressive. >> >> >> >> - Keith N1AS - >> >> - K3 711 - >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net on behalf >> of James >> >> Apple >> >> Sent: Sun 3/15/2009 9:26 AM >> >> To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> Subject: [Elecraft] 43' Vertical and the K2 >> tuner >> >> >> >> After the ice storm of 2009, I'm looking for >> an new >> >> antenna. I've >> >> been considering the 43' verticals by >> DXE,HyGain and >> >> MFJ. But I'm not >> >> sure if my K2 tuner will have the range needed. >> The DXE >> >> site has a >> >> warning about internal tuners. Anyone using a K2 >> and a >> >> 43' vertical ? >> >> how's it play ? >> >> >> >> Thanks in Advance >> >> >> >> - Jim (WB1DOG) >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> >> Elecraft mailing list >> >> Home: >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> >> Please help support this email list: >> >> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> >> Elecraft mailing list >> >> Home: >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> >> Please help support this email list: >> >> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > >> ______________________________________________________________ >> > Elecraft mailing list >> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> > >> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> > Please help support this email list: >> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.15/2003 - Release >> Date: 03/15/09 >> 14:07:00 >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: >> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. 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