Michael Allen started this thread on 9/06, about having an alternative
electoral system, in parallel, to do better on "the 'who' and the 'what'".
It would avoid restriction to party candidates.
That detail puzzles, since I see Plurality used with non-party candidates
running and sometimes winning.
Having both a standard system and an alternative system in use at the same
time puzzles and turns me off.
Now Condorcet gets mentioned, as if a party. At this point I argue for
making Condorcet the electoral system in use. Quoting Rapf:
"Once the condorcet winner can credibilly claim to be one of the
top-2, then the condorcet primary almost becomes the final election."
Certainly both party and non-party candidates would be permitted in
Condorcet. If primaries were also used, parties would nominate only
primary winners. This would not prevent primary losers from running as
non-party candidates.
Note that proper campaign emphasis is different in Condorcet:
NOT: Look at all the horns on my competitors - please vote for me
instead of them.
SAY: I do not object to your voting for those of my competitors who
have some good points - please just rank me higher because my good points
deserve that.
On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 16:25:37 +0100 Raph Frank wrote:
On 9/26/08, Kristofer Munsterhjelm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It seems this system would be more stable than I originally thought. Third
parties could run as parts of the Condorcet party without running much of a
risk, since they would otherwise get no votes at all. The defection danger
surfaces when the third parties have become sufficiently large from using
that parallel electoral system. Then a party that would win a plurality vote
but who isn't a Condorcet winner has an incentive to defect.
If the condorcet party winner can realistically claim to be one of the
top-2, then it doesn't matter as he will defeat any challeger. Both
the 2 main parties would have to defect.
The question is at what level of support does this becomes self-reinforcing.
A desire to defect can always happen, but when except as part of hurting
someone else - who would object to such?
One of the strongest arguments I have heard against using Condorcet in the
election and doing away with primaries, is a party desire to use primaries
to decide who to back in the election.
Following that kind of reasoning, it would appear that conventional parties
have very little to lose by running Condorcet primaries instead of Plurality
primaries, more so if there's an open primary. (So why don't they?)
As to open, either:
Party wants the primary to pick one if its members to be backed.
Party wants its members to do the selecting of who to back.
The current parties don't want to elect a condorcet winner, they want
to elect a winner that is biased towards them.
The 2 candidates in a 2 party system have to balance support of their
party with defeating the other candidate.
In the single issue case with voters ranging from 0 to 100, the 2
parties pick at 25 and 75, but the condorcet winner is at 50.
The final result might be 2 candidates at say 40 and 60 as they have
to balance the 2 requirements. This can be seen as candidates switch
the focus of their campaign once they have won nomination.
Anyway, I would agree that an open primary would be key for the
condorcet party. In states with a closed primary can a party allow
non-party members to vote if it wishes? Would this block those voters
from voting in their 'real' party?
Another problem is actually getting the main candidates to
participate. I assume it would be legal to add them to the ballot
without their permission?
Finally, turnout at the condorcet primary matters. If only a small
number of people vote, then it is much less evidence that the winner
is the real condorcet winner. One option would be to re-weight votes
so that the result is representative.
If the consequences of the result of the vote is not massive, then
there is little point in bothering to vote. So, there needs to be
some kind of boot-strap.
Once the condorcet winner can credibilly claim to be one of the top-2,
then the condorcet primary almost becomes the final election.
Certainly, winning the condorcet primary would be a major boost to any
candidate.
--
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Dave Ketchum 108 Halstead Ave, Owego, NY 13827-1708 607-687-5026
Do to no one what you would not want done to you.
If you want peace, work for justice.
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