>
>Although I am not unsympathetic to your desire, I must respectfully take
>exception to your characterization of "short sighted".
Well hello and Thank you! I'm glad someone did!
I'm far more than happy to have that discussion.
First, I'm not backing down from that term one tiny bit. It was
well thought and well defined for rational reasons that are clearly
stated in extreme detail below. This lengthy message is not meant
as trolling for creation of dispute. Its just meant to deal with
a prevalent problem that I see going on today with the current state
of 'business ethics'.
For those of you who might be annoyed with a lengthy email, please
know that my responses here are NOT meant personally towards the
original author nor even particularly directed at a specific software
company even though one is referenced a few times. To be clear, this
message is very clearly meant for the express purpose of debunking /
smashing some of the extremely
even EXCESSIVELY
poor business practices prevalant today in our current marketplace.
In other words, I'm going to go at it with cannons blasting but
directed far more towards poor business practices... not any
individual even though the discussion is particularly with an
individual.
>The fact is that no "stern splash screen disclaimer" is going to stop
>people from asking for help on that which they've a right to expect it.
Fact?
Shall we say it won't stop SOME people? There are also other ways.
This one was merely lobbing a softball. Rest assured, this will
happily be addressed below (eventually).
>I've seen this many times in my travels, and my experience
I won't challange you to line up the littany of those 'experiences'.
If they are really valid, you'll be able to list them without
any goading.
>gives the lie to your argument.
A lie? Hmmm... That sort of sounds like information that software
vendors might indoctrinate salesmen with when they hire in.
If we start from the beginning, ANY software sold will... WILL
have 'some %' in tech support costs after sale. Build it into
the price. Count on it. Agreed! No matter what it is, there
will be some figure. $.02 or $3000. There is one.
Are you suggesting that that an obsoleted version sold will have
some magical INCREASE in <the cost and> number of people who seek
tech support? That's what we're really talking about here.
How about we use some 'sample' numbers for clarity. Lets spell
it out in honest logic:
100 people buy <a software> (during some term of time) while it
is still active / 'supported'.
20 of that 100 (during some subsequent term of time) call in for
tech support.
(Please feel free to adjust the numbers as needed.)
Any software company happily sells software with this in mind.
What happens next as the software ages?
Then <a company> moves a software into obsolete status.
What happens to the numbers then.
100 people buy <a software> (during some much longer term of time)
while it is no longer active / 'supported'.
20 of that 100 (during the same 'much longer' term of time) call
in for tech support.
So....
Where is the 'extra cost' to the vendor / creator? As the old
'revival meetings' would say... Can I get a witness??? How about
even some miniscule evidence. SAME percentage of buyers. SAME
software. The ONLY thing different is that the TIME FRAME will
expand out proportionally to how long it takes to sell that number
of software items. If the 'cost' of tech support is too high,
that reflects back onto a too low original price, NOT some
mythical staggering increase in cost down the road after the
software 'went obsolete'.
Is it being suggested that the average buyer out there somehow...
mutates into 'the buyer from hell' suddenly driving tech support
crazy once a software goes obsolete? Please don't try to go there.
Hard as I try, I can't find this magical extra 'cost' to the tech
support department. Be reminded that the original software in
discussion here is / was PAID FOR when purchased just like the
NEW version would be PAID FOR. It really is carrying its own weight
unless the old OS9 tech support department is terminated when the
shifting to the new OS takes place. Of course we all know that
tech support people must be thrown away too after the OS they were
trained for goes obsolete right?
The proportions simply will not change over the broad based
average of softwares. C'mon, be honest. WHERE is the ...
erhm... 'lie' that was mentioned?
I wasn't born on tuesday. I'd like to see an honest answer to
that one in detail. *Goading intended... is more needed?
>Our reputation is _not_ built on taking money from anyone who has it,
>just because we have the means to do so.
Oh you nasty wicked thieving 'money grubbers you' (kidding).
PLEASE don't try to use this kind of cuarse business practice
to sell it as 'reputation building'. With all due respect,
its an elementary and blatent contradiction in terms.
Certainly I'll give you an "A" for courtesy if that is what
yo call it for not erhm... 'taking candy from the...' unwitting
'customers' who aren't smart enough to steer clear of the
charismatic power of the OS9 weilding sales force.
As to actually building reputation....
Point 1 SERVICE
A reputation gets built by turning a cold shoulder to valid
customers who email / make a phone calls with credit card in
hand right?
Forgive my ignorance but that builds reputation how?
Sure! I LIKE that kind of treatment. Show me where I can
spend MORE money with folks like that! I'm delighted with
being kicked in the face.
By the way, for the record, I COULD post the email I recieved
from a <vender> sales rep when I asked them this stuff some
time back! What a shame.
just for reminders...
>Our reputation is _not_ built on taking money from anyone who has it,
>just because we have the means to do so.
Point 2 CUSTOMERS right to SELF DETERMINATION
I hope this isn't suggesting that its a software sellers 'right'
to decide when a potential customers computer is now 'obsolete'.
Are they um... 'second class citizens' in some mysterious way?
Unable to make their own decisions? Too stupid to know how to
manage their money of their own free will? Can that be 'splained
to me'?
That is how _I_ felt when seeking customer service in my attempt
to buy an OS9 capable version of an email software some time ago.
The closest excuse I can imagine is far 'extra costs' of tech
support are more appropriately directed at a management
vulnerability in 'lack of knowledge' of how to problem solve...
and I'll be more than happy to put my money where my mouth is
right here in this document about that too... in a few minutes.
Other point to be noted: This is also NOT an attempt to reverse
the logic to put responsibility on a manufacturer for keeping
'Joe Public' in whatever software he wants. All I'm after is
open business practices where no 'agenda' except just plain
ol good business sense is being practiced.
Point 3 BUSINESS COURTESY
This is an aging mailing list of people who love to use an old
software written in the mid / late 90s on computers possibly
obsoleted 5 years ago. Some are even using an OS obsoleted
somewhere back there too. We discuss possible replacements
to our favorite software... giving mention of a software that
could potentially be 'supported' with very little cost. Sir, I
double dog dare you to try to construct some kind of genuine
reasoning that contrives 'good business' out of deliberate
alienating of a customer base that WILL have to move forward
eventually in one way or another just due to natural attrition
of < our > old hardware alone! I can STILL get parts for
my 1990 truck without even sneezing about it... from multiple
sources no less. Try to buy < new > parts for a 5 year old
computer! Hah! Lotsa luck.
>If the cost of conducting
>business in an honest and straightforward manner is that we must
>occasionally turn away a customer, then that's the way it has to be.
WOW! Just plain WOW! That has got to be one of the WORST thought
out answers I have seen in quite a while.
>I'd rather turn business away now, than have to incur greater costs
>later, when such customers forget (and they invariably do) that the
>product they purchased was sold "as is" and then complain bitterly
>because we won't support what we sold them. I've seen that happen enough
>times elsewhere that I want no part of it, and I believe that to behave
>otherwise would be, uh, short sighted. :-)
"Bitterly" huh? Ok. To respond to these last two paragraphs...
Ready or not here it comes....
Here's my 'top 10 reasons why this is just plain... to put it
politely... rediculous. I'm sorry if this sounds arrogant or
rude, but that reasoning REALLY has to be taken to the cleaners.
Item 1: PROFIT
To spell it out:
"Press 9 for OS9 support and please be advised that OS9 support
calls cost $x.00 per minute for software older than <expiration
date>. All other tech support personell are trained to ONLY
focus on 'POST OS9' support and are not permitted to answer OS9
version questions ... THANK YOU!"
FREE TIP: 10 seconds training for tech support people...
"Gentlemen, all OS9 version calls are to go to Joe at desk 18"
Joe: "Hi this is Joe, can I get your credit card number?"
(affordable training too huh!) A touch profits from the OS9
sales desk might even cover that training time.
HELLO!!!! Cost problem over with! Game over dude! Game, set,
match, slam dunk, home run, touchdown, and championship. Can
they do that? Don't really even NEED the other 9 of my top 10
list ... but that wouldn't be any fun.
Maybe sales guys don't LIKE making money?
Logic exercise: Who gets madder:
A: The guy who can't get tech support
B: The guy who has to pay for it?
Item 2: SERVICE
"Honest and straight forward" could simply provide GOOD SERVICE!
PERIOD! No need for "Market Manipulations" like this. If you
MUST wash your hands of it... put those service manuals that
the tech support people use onto the web site or give them to
the $x.00 per hour tech support people.
FWIW (Other parts to the solutions might include...)
Once the program goes 'obsolete' MIGRATE the friggin tech support
phone number to an exclusive OSX support one only available from
within the OSX software itself. That has the additional benefit
of getting rid of erhm... unwanted 'customers' looking for free
tech support if one really wants to throw them away that
boldly / badly.
Item 3: LOGIC
Honest and straightforward? Straightforward could be simply
doing the LOGICAL thing and allow selling the most DEVELOPED
software. WHICH software has the LEAST COST of development,
tech support, and whatever other 'costs' can be dredged up.
I stray into my next point. Speaking of cost...
Item 4: COST
Is it being suggested that the newer versions are all perfect
and 'need no support'. If its not about tech support then
PLEASE DO correct me and show me where these imaginary 'costs'
are hiding. I'm having a really rough time finding validity
to them.
Item 5: Honesty / Features
Since we're talking honesty here... How about a brutally honest
question: Is the old version a good and saleable product? Here's
a novel idea! Simply sell it because its a good product that
fulfills a niche need in the market place. Which again sends me
onward to the next point.
Item 6: STABILITY / GOOD PRODUCT
Its the 'old' versions that are always unstable right? Maybe
you've never heard the saying... "Never use software that ends
with version 'x.0' unless you like being on the bleeding edge".
Item 7: DECISION MAKING of END USERS
Honest and straight forward? Says who? Who became 'God' and
decided its 'honest and straight forward' to require the 'huddled
masses' to mindlessly shut up and allow manufacturers decide when
our computers or our software to go obsolete? I still fire up an
old 2c once in a while just for kicks!
<Rant alert>
Rebelling against being part of the 'mindless huddled masses'
I choose to think for myself! If we did as this 'honesty and
integrity' seems to suggest, they'd have us driving $100,000
cars that need to be taken to the junk yard in six months just
so they can brag about their profit margins to their share holders.
Oh wait, big oil IS bragging already.
(Oops...fell off topic there... sorry).
</ rant>
Item 8: COMPARISON to NEW PRODUCTS
Let me see if I can get this straight.
Its ok to sell copies by the dozens, hundreds, or thousands
to customers with the knowledge that a certain percentage of
them will ask for tech support. Somehow that is a normally
anticipated thing. Seems to me that 'honest and straightforward'
could figure out that maybe the OLD version will have a little
bit of tech support cost too? Many businesses should be all too
happy to sell a profitable 'cleaner' and more developed version
of MANY products than to force the newer (higher tech support
cost?) version.
Item 9: OBSOLESCENCE
This 'final OS9 version' now obsoleted is bleeding the vendor
to death slowly by distraction right?
HAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAHAAA!
'Assume' the splash screen warning has had absolutely no effect.
Those "increasingly rare" < cough! > 'free' calls (can that be
honestly admitted since we're talking honesty and integrity here?)
are going to somehow break the company. They will have to shut
down their massive / exclusive "OS9 only" tech support department
to save the company from certain demise because of huge increases
in costs with diminishing returns? With whatever due respect is
accurate here.... Where would you get that for a 'paid for' product?
Oh I get it... the tech support calls are still free. Who's mistake
is that? Is this software company incapable of independent thought
enough to simply use fundimental business logic...
See Problem ---> Fix problem ---> customers happy ---> be happy
---> go to bank to make deposits ----> play friday afternoon golf
with wealthy buddies who also can't keep up with their sales orders.
Item 10: Agenda
With all due respect, SOMEBODY is either pushing an agenda or
just plain not thinking. Another saying: "If looking for an
agenda, follow the money" Honest and straight forward would
not need to trump up an agenda for squashing the old software.
FINALLY: An ALTERNATIVE (Can't call it #11 cuz I promised a
'Top 10 list'.)
Tell ya what. How bout all those obsolete programs be 'SOLD'
to a small software manufacturer so they can service and support
them at THEIR OWN COST! Let them sell rights to that software to
<some nerd> and he'll set up a company to service it from there.
If <a software seller> is (starving???) unable to afford it they
SURELY would love to get an income from this horrific 'service
nightmare' being generated by all those 'customers from hell'
that are being 'tech supported'. I'd be interested in that
for a home based business too.
* * *
Business 101 class:
Honesty and integrity! Sir, I suggest that perhaps honesty and
integrity are the BEST reason FOR software venders to actually
make an attempt to do business by the old friendly methods. It
might enlighten the public to what a NICE company they could be.
Its your call. Good business or bad. Friendly support or rude
treatment of potential customers. There is no market manager
stronger than taking 'our' business elsewhere. Call this a
dare. I 'double dog dare' <software venders> to lead the way
in good service and post the old versions for availability.
It might even make a friend or three now and then.
>> Am I the only one who sees this?
>
>You're certainly not the only one, but you are part of an anomalous
>class, I regret to say.
"Anomalous class" Hmmmm. Well thank you for the "dissing". That
is MUCH appreciated. Nice to know how erhm... 'customer support'
works these days at some businesses. The good news: there are
OTHER places to take our money.
I will apologize for the sarcastic tone of some of my comments
but NOT for the validity of their points. Its extremely difficult
to have respect for that kind of short sighted business thinking.
One last 'old saying'.
A happy customer tells a friend or two
A mad customer tells 10 friends or twenty
Do the math!
Ya know... forget the math. Do it your own way. If you really
believe all that nonsense and feel that its appropriate to treat
customer service so 'nicely' who am I to argue. Software venders,
please do endear all the Claris Emailer people to your method of
doing business. After all, if a company makes a habit of being
rude to SOME customers......
Eventually someone else will come along .... ;)
Don
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