On Wednesday 04 February 2009, Ray Henry wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 11:58 +0000, paul_c wrote:
> > Chris, your thread raises several questions, none of which have had a
> > satisfactory answer when asked in the past...
>
> We really should be asking this questions of the EMC board -- of which
> Chris is but one member.

The "EMC board" over the last two-three years has on one hand sort to dictate 
terms, and on the other, ignore their mandated responsibilities. The last 
two "elections", and possibly the third, have been conducted in a haphazard 
fashion, as a result, I (and a few others) no longer consider it a valid 
entity.

> > * Who decides what "features" get included.
>
> The recent disagreement between at least three folk is not at all new.
> These disagreements have cropped up from time to time since the project
> evolved at NIST.

During the time that NIST was involved, I don't recall any disagreements. 
Plenty of screwball ideas floated, but Fred Proctor was always willing to 
listen. However, the goals of NIST was never to produce a product, just to 
demonstrate an idea.

> > * Who is responsible for which sections of the code base.
>
> The community -- like it or not.

In which case, the "board" has even less relevance.

> > * Where is the guiding policy document detailing ongoing development.
>
> Policy?  "We don't need no stinking policy!"  But you are correct that
> even the most agile sorts of code development have some sort of
> systematic approach to the road ahead.  That may be as simple as a
> policy about how the code repository works.

You certainly need a policy more than ever - There is already a note on coding 
style that everyone can stick their fingers up at, so it would be reasonable 
to have a similar one for general development.

> It seems to this observer that what has happened recently centers around
> who wrote the original and the vision they had for it.  As others saw
> potential for new abilities that piggybacked the earlier work there was
> a clash of vision.

As I see it, someone (Chris Morley) wanted to extend stepconf so that it had 
uses beyond one specific GUI - An effort I for one would support.
 There is little point in producing a different setup wizard for each and 
every GUI - It duplicates work, turns support and debugging in to a 
nightmare. But if the only way to configure this stuff is to use some 
pointie-clickie tool, then HAL (and the "board") has failed in it's stated 
aim of simplifying things.

> IMO a better product comes from the clash of visions.  We need to be
> certain that we focus the disagreement on the vision and the code rather
> than the people involved.  I think this is proving to be the case this
> time as well.

If you build on sand without solid foundations, it will eventually fall down.


> > * Where is the public discussion & code review conducted.
>
> Right here and on IRC.

Not everyone has time to waste to spend on IRC, and what (limited) discussion 
on code has been tendered here has had little impact.

>>
>>
> Wah!  If we are not permitted to write and explore multiple approaches
> to any part of EMC we are back in the motion control dark ages.  I seem
> to remember a "dark ages" meeting between a few of us in Matt's garage
> and driveway where an attempt was made to steer EMC away from HAL.  I've
> since become a dedicated user.

I said at the time, I want an industrial strength control, not another second 
rate hobbiest package (there are plenty of offerings available for Windows).
HAL in it the form that it was originally proposed was worthy of persuing, and 
as long as it provides mechanism rather than policy, it still is.

 I also remember the week beforehand spent at NIST - Even when in the same 
room, everyone would huddle over their laptops or in pairs and wouldn't 
discuss anything. Hell, even over breakfast, agreements were made and then 
forgotton about as soon as the bill arrived.

> This is not intended to make light of any one person's effort here.  I
> really appreciate each developer and the contributions they have made
> but these are some really big and important things.  Once again the pool
> of contributing code writers is expanding and that expansion causes some
> friction.  The key to the future is that we not prevent contributions,
> rather that we encourage tagging, branching, and development of the
> widest possible range of machine control options.

 Little is being done to encourage new developments, if anything users are 
actively discourgaged.



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