Scott: Very, very, likely..
Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Barrows <[email protected]> To: Jacob Schanker <[email protected]>; PSTC <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 5:10 PM Subject: Re: NEC Question BUT REMEMBER OSHA | Jacob, | I would imagine that when the electrical inspector came in to review the electrical connections of that computerized, | T1 hooked up brand new home, there would be an issue that would relate to the NEC. | | Scott | | Jacob Schanker wrote: | | > Rich: | > | > You are implying, but not stating, that NEC has the force of law | > regarding the domestic environment. | > | > This differs with my understanding, or lack thereof. I have | > always regarded the National Electric Code as a recommended set | > of standards and practices which enabled localities to reference | > NEC in their local building codes, rather than develop their own | > from scratch. | > | > Perhaps you can expand on where the force of law applies to the | > NEC with regard to portable, plug-in (not permanently wired) home | > appliances and such? | > | > Jack | > | > Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. | > 65 Crandon Way | > Rochester, NY 14618 | > Phone: 716 442 3909 | > Fax: 716 442 2182 | > [email protected] | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: Rich Nute <[email protected]> | > To: <[email protected]> | > Cc: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; | > <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> | > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 2:32 PM | > Subject: Re: NEC Question BUT REMEMBER OSHA | > | > | | > | | > | | > | Hi Gregg: | > | | > | | > | > Just to ensure that I have my understanding right - if the | > equipment is used | > | > where OSHA applies then it must be approved by a third | > party like UL | > | | > | Yes. More specifically: | > | | > | If... the product is used by an employee in the workplace... | > | | > | Then... the product must be certified by an NRTL, | > | of which UL is one. | > | | > | > If it is domestic then it does not (in most states. | > | | > | No and yes. | > | | > | No, OSHA rules do not apply to a domestic place. | > | | > | Yes, NEC rules apply to a domestic place and do | > | require third-party safety certification. | > | | > | OSHA rules apply to the workplace, not to domestic places. | > | So, domestic places are not required -by OSHA- to have | > | NRTL-certified products. | > | | > | HOWEVER, the National Electrical Code applies everywhere, | > | including domestic places. The NEC requires products, | > | including domestic products, to be "listed" by a third- | > | party engaged in the safety evaluation of products. | > | | > | The NEC does not specify the third-party. During the | > | process of adoption of the NEC by various city, county, | > | or state governments, the government agency decides | > | which certification houses are acceptable to them. The | > | acceptable certification houses are published locally. | > | | > | For a third-party certifier, this means the certifier | > | must not only apply to OSHA for NRTL, but must also | > | apply to every jurisdiction in the USA for acceptance | > | under the NEC. | > | | > | Many, but not all NRTLs are also accepted by the various | > | city, county, or state governments under the local version | > | of the NEC. | > | | > | Likewise, there are some certifiers who are accepted by | > | one or more governments under the NEC, but are not NRTLs. | > | | > | There are a few pockets where local governments do not | > | require "listing" under the NEC. | > | | > | In summary: | > | | > | OSHA requires products used in the workplace to be | > | certified by an NRTL. | > | | > | The NEC requires products used in an installation | > | (including domestic places) to be certified by an | > | organization designated by the local government | > | agency charged with enforcing the NEC. | > | | > | These are independent functions. | > | | > | For all practical purposes, third-party safety certification | > | is required throughout the USA. | > | | > | Enforcement of both OSHA and NEC for cord-connected products | > | is spotty at best. | > | | > | Since virtually all products are NRTL-certified, OSHA spends | > | its time addressing more immediate workplace safety issues. | > | | > | Since cord-connected products are installed AFTER the | > | electrical installation is complete and approved, and since | > | virtually all products are safety-certified, there is little | > | or no enforcement of NEC-required certification. | > | | > | > AND, does anyone have a list of States where certification | > is mandated? | > | | > | I would be easier to come up with a list of where certification | > | is NOT required! :-) It would be a one-page list of cities | > | or counties which have very low population densities. | > | | > | | > | Best regards, | > | Rich | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | > ------------------------------------------- | > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety | > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. | > | > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ | > | > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: | > [email protected] | > with the single line: | > unsubscribe emc-pstc | > | > For help, send mail to the list administrators: | > Michael Garretson: [email protected] | > Dave Heald [email protected] | > | > For policy questions, send mail to: | > Richard Nute: [email protected] | > Jim Bacher: [email protected] | > | > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: | > No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. | | ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: [email protected] with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson: [email protected] Dave Heald [email protected] For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: [email protected] Jim Bacher: [email protected] All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
