Thank you Alan.
Best Regards Charles Grasso ________________________________ From: Alan E Hutley [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 8:43 AM To: Grasso, Charles; [email protected] Subject: RE: [PSES] CE Standard for Power Lines data Transmission System Charles you may have seen this but just in case. Cheers Alan E Hutley The EMC journal From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 24 May 2010 3:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Standard for Power Lines data Transmission System “That is why I plea for treating PLT as Radio, not wire bounded communication.” No – no – no. PLT is an unintentional device that happens to use the HF band maybe at higher levels than you would like – but there it is. By your logic ALL electronic devices should be classified as intentional radiators. After all we have emissions that fall in someone’s space in the ether. (Disclosure : I have eight PLC devices in my house. As my interconnection needs expanded I could keep pace without having to rewire the house!) Best Regards Charles Grasso ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 4:35 AM To: Haynes, Tim (SELEX GALILEO, UK); [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: RE: [PSES] CE Standard for Power Lines data Transmission System Hi Tim, The problem is that PLT manufacturers state that they use cabling, and not the HF spectrum. So they are not concerned with ITU. That is why I plea for treating PLT as Radio, not wire bounded communication. Any radiation should (according to them) be treated as spurious radiation. As the standard AMN (V-network- LISN) has a conversion factor from Diff Mode signal to its output of - 6dB, any send level above on average 66 + 6 dB is a failure. (well, you know the actual limits). By defining the mains connection as both mains (when not sending) and telecom port (when sending) they try to create a situation where a dedicated network (ISN) can be introduced to measure telecom port spurious emissions. Of course any telecom port network (ISN) has to mimic the LCL value of the connected network (just as with CAT 3-6 network cabling),and that opens a way of redefining the 6dB LCL value. Some propositions go as low as -26 dB of DM to CM conversion, and this makes it possible to increase the send level with 20 dB. So that means that an mains network has better properties for PLT (-26) then for other equipment (-6) !!!! Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen [email protected] www.cetest.nl Kiotoweg 363 3047 BG Rotterdam T 31(0)104152426 F 31(0)104154953 Before printing, think about the environment. Van: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Namens Haynes, Tim (SELEX GALILEO, UK) Verzonden: Thursday, May 20, 2010 11:22 AM Aan: [email protected]; [email protected] Onderwerp: RE: [PSES] CE Standard for Power Lines data Transmission System Keeping my Ham Radio interests out of this discussion... If there is a conflict between two incompatible uses of the HF spectrum, I would think that it is necessary for the ITU to arrange a proper discussion regarding the merits of radio-communications vs.. PLT/Home Plug. Even though I know which I think is most important, I can see that, if it is necessary for the good of humanity, to supplant radio communications in the HF band with PLT then it will show as such in any rigorous cost benefit analysis. All we need is a body with a charter from the worlds governments to arrange this and make a ruling on future spectrum use based upon the result. Without a "cost benefit analysis", the argument will continue. In my view it is undemocratic to continue in the current manner. Regards Tim Comment on notching. Even if I am advantaged by the notching of the PLT emissions, what about the users of the rest of the bands? Do they deserve to loose their use of the HF spectrum to PLT just because they do not have an organised voice in the same way that Hams do? The above are my personal comments and not those of my Company. Tim ************************ Tim Haynes Electromagnetic Engineering Specialist SELEX Galileo, A Finmeccanica Company 300 Capability Green Luton LU1 3PG (Phone *) +44 (0) 1582 886239 (Mob *) +44 (0) 7540629920 (Fax *)+44 (0)1582 795863 (Email *) [email protected] www.selexgalileo.com P Please consider the environment before printing this email. There are 10 types of people in the world-those who understand binary and those who don't. J. Paxman ________________________________ From: Alan E Hutley [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 19 May 2010 07:33 To: [email protected] Subject: [PSES] CE Standard for Power Lines data Transmission System *** WARNING *** This message has originated outside your organisation, either from an external partner or the Global Internet. Keep this in mind if you answer this message. Hello All Those interested in the Environmental effects of PLT/BPL/PLC may find this interesting. Environmental Effects of the widespread deployment of high speed Power Line Communication- Cumulative Effects on Signal/Noise ratio for Radio Systems By Richard Marshall, MA, CEng., FIEE, FIET, FInstP, Richard Marshall Limited http://www.compliance-club.com/PLT/Richard%20Marshall%20Issue%2087.PDF Cheers Alan E Hutley The EMC Journal - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]> David Heald <[email protected]> SELEX Galileo Ltd Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales. Company no. 02426132 ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]> David Heald <[email protected]> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]> David Heald <[email protected]> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]> David Heald <[email protected]> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]> David Heald <[email protected]>
